Following PT advice: To see or not to see a neurologist?

Ok, so first off: I vote to not see a neurologist. Am I right?

So today, I timidly stuck my foot down the rabbit hole by going to a PT (recommended by my primary care doc for deconditioning (ie. Being really out of shape). I knew this was a risky move for my sanity, but I’ve never been to a PT before, and I was curious how it might help me.

And yes, I knew in my heart she might say what she did. She would like me to see a neurologist to rule out MS and “other autoimmune diseases,” mainly due to the spasticity she saw in my left leg.

She also noted that I had a hypersensitive nervous system. (No duh!) She said that is rare. (Also, no duh!) She seemed perplexed by my hodgepodge of symptoms that don’t really add up to a neat package. I couldn’t even answer the pain evaluation sheet because I’m really not ever in pain, per se. More, I have tingling, burning, numbness and weakness. (All TMS).

She gave me some really basic exercises to do that honestly I could probably have found myself on YouTube. But I do like the accountability factor. And I like how going there would give me a big excuse to get out of the house.

Even discussion of the neurologist is counter to Sarno’s healing method— and really anxiety-inducing in me.

I’m tempted to do her exercises and see her once a week for a while, just to bolster some strength up. But it might make me more anxious overall, because it does feel really “medical” to go there. Another part of me wants to just bag out now.

Soooo: this is a journey! All you can do is try avenues. Weigh things out. Consult you guys!

What are your thoughts? Thank you!

 

Hi @Diana-M,

The general advice is to get ourselves checked out medically first before treating symptoms as TMS, so I'm not going to advise against that.

However, whilst going through the process of getting checked out, I know that the tendency will more than likely be that your brain/mind will bring up thoughts about 'what if it's this' and 'what if it's that'...

You can't stop your brain from popping those kinds of catastrophizing thoughts into your consciousness (although perhaps meditation might reduce the amount of them) but you can stop those thoughts in their tracks and gently move your attention on to other things that are positive and in keeping with the mind/body/TMS work that you're doing. Eckhart Tolle has talked about such thoughts behaving like a dog sniffing at a scent it has picked up -- before you know it, the dog has followed the scent from one side of a huge field to right over the other side of the field, through a copse and over a stream, and way off into the distance! These days when negative thoughts pop into my head, I just say to myself "peace" and keep repeating "peace" until my brain lets go of the negative thinking and allows me to move on to more pleasant things... and, of course, putting pen to paper and 'journaling-out' disquieting thoughts is a good way of recognising the fear and rage, expressing those things, and then getting on with life as best we can and doing TMS work.

I've had a lot of dealings with neurologists (here in the UK in our National Health Service) and my experience has been that they are more than inclined not to commit themselves to a diagnosis without repeat testing (and they do love their tests!). For instance, if they order muscle testing and there's a weakly positive result, they're likely not to diagnose, they'll repeat the test and then, if it's still weakly or mildly positive, they probably still won't diagnose, they'll repeat the test again and keep doing so over a protracted period of time.... And they like 'all ducks to be in a row', all present and correct... By that I mean that if there are several signs and symptoms and types of test results that can indicate a particular neurological condition they don't like diagnosing unless all, or at least the majority, of those 'indicators' (ducks) are present and strongly so. There's a plus side to this TMS-wise as you're less likely to get a false medical label from a neurologist than with some other medical fields. On the downside, dealings with neurologists can be a long, drawn out affair.

Others may have quite a different experience of neurologists, but I can only speak as I've found, so my advice would be to mentally 'compartmentalise' your dealings with them and your thoughts about the process with them, and stay strong and keep up with the TMS work. The other thing I can say about neurologists is that the majority of them believe in 'functional disorder' aka 'conversion disorder' https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/conversion-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20355197 (Neurological symptoms are real and improvement is possible-Functional neurologic disorder/conversion disorder - Symptoms & causes - Mayo Clinic) which is/are (arguably) TMS and they often refer patients to psychiatrists (which offends a lot of patients, i.e. those who are not open to their symptoms being mind/body).

With the PT I'd keep reminding yourself that, as far as you are concerned, you are attending PT solely to get yourself into better shape and not to cure yourself of your symptoms...

However, if you'd prefer not to go to PT because it continues to feel too 'medical' for you and/or you might be finding it hard to keep to your resolve to believe that you are 'only doing PT to get in better shape', then I'd consider doing something else instead like chi gong or tai chi. It's gentle but stamina strengthening. You can do this in your living room any time you want. I like this video because it's tai chi that doesn't need a lot of room to move about in and the instructions are pretty clear (it's for beginners and there are two more videos with the same teacher at intermediate and advanced level):



I'm much more mobile than I was when I first started TMS work and all I did was to just start off doing some walking on the spot, moving from side to side, reaching up with my arms and arm circling, that kind of thing, for a mere 5 minutes a day whilst I was watching TV (as that was all I could manage for a long while) but now I can do 35 to 40 minutes.

Anyway, I've droned on a lot in this posting, but I hope it will be worth the read and at least something I've said will be of some help to you.

 

@BloodMoon,
Thank you so much for this extensive and valuable response. All such good advice! I greatly appreciate you taking the time to answer my question. This will all help me.

 

I awoke this morning thinking about your PT dilemma, @Diana-M... and realised that something I didn't suggest in my last posting was that you might find it possible to do PT with a mindset of that - in addition to doing it to get in shape - you are also teaching your brain that you're safe, that it's safe to move your body in this way and there's nothing for your brain to fear from movement (a la Dan Buglio, albeit he doesn't, I believe, recommend PT but does recommend doing things to show your brain you're safe).

 

Jan,
Thank you so much for weighing in! Part of me was wondering if I should just be brave and not be a victim, and go see what the neurologist says. You mentioned in our earlier discussion about seeing the doctor, that we can never heal as victims.

I would like nothing more than to NOT go. But, it could certainly bring me peace of mind, if the neuro gives me the all clear.

My MD is the type to listen to my wishes. She mentioned a neuro consult, but when I was resistant, she said I could try PT first. Her very first impression, though, was that I’m deconditioned.

Here’s another factor at play. When I was 14 I came home from school one day and my mother was in the hospital, diagnosed with MS. I had no idea she was even sick. That day I’m sure gave me PTSD. She was in the hospital a month. The neurologist was heartless, in my opinion, the way he talked to us. My father basically ran by working nights. He was a coward. And I was the oldest, holding it all together with my sisters ages 11 and 9.

My mom degenerated very rapidly after that. It was nothing like MS is today. In fact, it was even extreme for MS at the time. There wasn’t medication then. My entire teenagehood and young adult life, until she died when I was 28, was traumatic because of her MS. This contributed to some of my doctor phobia.

And now— I have MS-like symptoms, which I believe is TMS. I believe it mostly because of my 30 year history with TMS. And my primitive brain knows that nothing could scare me more. It’s hand picked.

I want to be in reality. I want to heal. At all costs. If I need to face down this MS demon to heal, then so be it. I’m to that point. But, I also truly believe that seeing a neuro could really mess with my sense of safety, blocking my healing.

Sorry to spill all of this on you. But it does feel good to get it out amongst TMSers, who understand. I am beyond appreciative for your support!

 

@BloodMoon,
It means the world to me to receive your valuable advice. And it’s touching you are pondering over my situation. The biggest thing about this forum is how it keeps us from being alone with all this. And that is HUGE! So thank you!

Of all the TMS counselors out there, Dan Buglio speaks the most to me. I was thinking the same thing about the PT visits. They give me a chance to teach my brain I’m safe.

Thank you for your powerful example of healing! And I also want to thank @Cactusflower for weighing in via private message. You all mean a lot to me!

 

@Baseball65,
While I am at it, I’d love to hear what you think, Baseball. Since you seem to think earlier that I really don’t need a doctor’s advice to heal from this at all. Your comments earlier in my doctor thread have been making me want to ask you to advise further. Am I doing myself no good by seeing even the PT? I mean, it’s against what Sarno said. In light of my history with my Mom’s MS (above), what do you think?

 

One more update: after 2 days of doing the PT exercises, I feel stronger. My symptoms are kicked up, but I figure that’s expected.

 

Well, As I am not a doctor, don't understand what MS is , I don't think my opinion is very important.

I had a very scary moment recently. I had a relapse and the pain was so intense I didn't think I could stand it another second. I was CERTAIN it was TMS and realized I had nowhere to go to be assuaged. I actually started to cry. If I could resurrect Dr. Sarno and bring him to my home I Imagine he might have given me a dose of Morphine or Demerol out of mercy...except...One of my meds Blocks all opiates from working in my system!!!!...I felt so alone and scared no typed words could convey it, though any TMSer could Identify with it.

I listened to a blog podcast of a fellow who has been doing this for a number of years... he recommended a 'pain buddy'...that is someone who also understands and has recovered from TMS, so you have someone to call in such situations. I think that is a STELLAR Idea.

During his podcast, he discussed the 'mentality' of someone prime for an attack or relapse...it is directly tied to that 'what should i do?' perma hesistation, as if one small decision is going to redirect the entire flow of our life...it won't. Go to the doctor. Just make sure and remember what you're there to find out about. I have specifically told doctors who demand x-rays.."Go ahead...take your picture, but I do NOT want to know what you find on it"....

write about it. scribble it down...what are you going there for? To find out that you don't have MS? Fine...but it is a rare Md who doesn't throw a log on the pile...be mentally prepared for THAT and your ok.

 

I’m not sure about that. But I can find out. And shop around if I need to.

 

Thanks for this story! You are so right. It could turn out to be a big relief! I liked what @BloodMoon said higher in this thread about neurologists being more aware of mind-body, like you said. She included a link to Mayo Clinic talking about it. It’s called conversion disorder.

This whole neuro snag for me could be a big part of healing for me. A great chance to journal about all of this MS stuff and put it to rest. Thanks so much for your thoughts!

 

So sorry to hear you had a painful attack! Are you feeling better now?

Thanks for the advice to basically keep this all in perspective. And, I will be sure —if I go—to keep the terror down to a minimum. I have a history of rarely following doctor’s orders, for good or bad. But I’m still alive!

Pain buddies sounds like a great idea! Kind of like a TMS sponsor. Maybe we should start that program.

 

Yes, we should. I have alreayd discussed it with another forum bro.

I am already much better than I was. Thank you.

I am a little angry at myself for not 'keeping house' better and thinking I could go out into situations I don't need to be involved with that are rage inducing. Cockiness on my part no doubt, BUT it was a good reminder that even 1000% belief in TMS cannot proof you against it... We wear safety harnesses when we work on multi-story buildings, but I have never Jumped off the building to find out if they actually work! (LOL)...

Just to try some new stuff , to find new questions, I read some of the SEP and reviewed the Gordon stuff....I don't really understand it the way I understood Sarno, BUT there were loads of good questions in there. One I really liked was stopping and asking myself "What am I afraid of right now, this very second?"
When I answered the question it was always something like "Not being able to work tomorrow....not being able to play with Sophie(my dog)... not being able play baseball this week"...It is a good way to do Sarno's "Turn your mind to an irritation" because it makes you 'Think Psychologically' and not just amble blindly through the fear, Fear is always vague and in the FUTURE... it is rarely NOW......and FEAR is a big old percentage chunk of the intensity of the alienation that TMS provokes.

Of the laundry lists of fears I felt during an acute attack , NONE of them manifested into reality... I was always better than my fear was telling me I was...and things I was certain that would become disasters, did not.

 

@Baseball65,

I like that suggestion for journaling. “”What am I afraid of right now?” That’s a good one!

You said; “Of the laundry lists of fears I felt during an acute attack , NONE of them manifested into reality... ” Something we should always try and remember!

Along those lines, I have really loved something @Cactusflower said to quell many of my fears, which all seem to center on aging and money—she said if you have a roof over your head, a warm bed and some food. You are safe. I’ve been repeating that to myself a lot, and it’s helping.

 

I must have missed that conversation. That is at the root of a lot of my 'vague' anxiety. I have actually been homeless twice in my life so it is not a fear based on nothing. And the last time (2012) was eerily similar to the current climate. However, that is CONDITIONING and I get mad every time I catch myself "What? are you a dog? Are you gonna flinch just because you got whacked on the nose a few times?"

I got asked a really good question tonight when discussing 'lack of faith' and it reminded me of a lot of stuff...when I was homeless, I ended up Fine. Oh, it was uncomfortable and scary, but it didn't break me. Emmet Fox once used that as a teaching tool and he was right...It gave me a Lot of colorful experiences from which to draw upon for inspiration, and a new appreciation of very small comforts. My own room. Privacy. Food. Nobody bugging me about bills (when you're homeless, they can't find you!)

Being Homeless was a lot like brain damage... it mostly bugged the people around me. The people suffering from it are too distracted to care. I never once had a TMS symptom!

One of my biggest fears is being a Drain or a bother to my sons....most recent blind spot was tied into that...one of Sarno's "When it comes out of nowhere, look really close"

 

Same! (I also have sons.) and I also fear being subjected to them—or anyone. Or, God forbid, my daughters-in-law. I don’t want to be weak or needy or to have to rely on anyone. It’s so easy to picture the worst things that could happen as you age. But all of it is imagining. It is only catastrophic thinking. Hopefully all the work we are doing to be free from TMS makes us most likely to be lined up for the best possible old age. I personally intend it to be the best years of my life.

I was never homeless, but pretty close, for a number of years as a single mother. I think dire poverty can put a kind of fear in your primitive brain. It never forgets. Howard Schubiner’s book, Unlearn Your Pain, has this exercise where you write all your TMS incidents down and what was going on at the time of onset. I realized that every single time was related to financial insecurity—-or fear of it. So recently, I’ve decided that I really need to focus on that in calming my mind. I need to work on that a lot harder.

 

I should probably get that book. I have always been a Sarno-fundy, but that blog also mentioned that book as well and a lot of the content.

One resource I have always used is Louise Hays "You can heal your life"... I am not a big affirmation guy (other than the 12 reminders) But she has been eerily correct in WHAT was going on in my life when I got "X" symptom....even down to the location. Example, most lowback TMS seems to be financial, mid back is GUILT and Neck is Not feeling loved.

-Neck Froze when I was aged 6 because my Mom was leaving me right after my father and Nanny died.
-When My back problem started after the birth of my second son
-Recently mid back when I felt guilty about some jobs I got that someone else didn't

anecdotal for sure, and even Sarno would've raised an eyebrow maybe, but Louise Hay is batting like .872 with 48 homers!
She also has a lot more than the traditional muscular-skeletal symptoms.

But yeah... One of the reasons I get along so well with my sons is by trying to only support them...not ask for anything, or at least expect it...even an unenthusiastic reply when I ask for help with something reminds me to never ask for much. They complain to me about how demanding their Mom is and I have always taken that as 'don't get needy old guy or we won't like you either'....This is NOT reality...just how I perceive reality. When I fell of a building and severed my thumb my oldest son was at the hospital in minutes with one call from my boss... He stayed for hours (and missed work) to wait until the surgery was done...and then made sure I was taken care of...
But I didn't ask for his help...my TMS won't let me. THAT is one of my worst blindspots. Makes me feel alone...not them. Me.