The 5 Whys (to get to the root of the anger/issue)

Reposting from another thread so that we can discuss the "5 Whys" here.

"I think what you are doing is expressing your known anger versus your hidden anger. The stuff that causes the physical symptoms is tucked away and the physical symptoms are there to distract you and make sure you don't find it.

You've got a super strong protective mechanism. It's actually quite impressive. Which means that you need to let your protective self know, "thanks, but I'm going in."

You've got to peel off the layers like peeling an onion. The good stuff is hiding under all that.
And by good stuff, it doesn't have to be anything earth shattering.

Maybe you can do some written exploration starting with all the anger that you expressed recently and ask yourself WHY?

Are you familiar with the Japanese "5 Why" method for problem solving?
You ask why. And then when you get an answer you ask why to that you ask Why. And then you keep asking why.

Here is an example from a TMS perspective. (FYI, I'm just making this up. I'm not a therapist and this isn't some kind of known technique in TMS.)

Why was I so angry last week?

Because my stupid boyfriend didn't take out the trash AGAIN.

Why did that make you so angry?

Because when he doesn't take the trash out, sometimes the dog gets into it.

Why does that make you so angry?

Because I'm afraid he might eat something dangerous and it might kill him?

Why does that make you so angry?

Because I don't want my dog to die.

Why?
Because I will feel like a failure.

Why?
Because my Mum used to always say I couldn't take care of my stuff..............



So in this example, if the person yelled and screamed and got out all that anger about the boy friend not taking out the trash, that wouldn't get to the TMS symptom causing anger."

 

Thanks @Booble!
This is a lot like the emotional awareness and expression work Dr. Schubiner uses in his book.

 

You're welcome.
That's good to know about Dr. Schubiner!

I've known about the 5 Whys from business but hadn't consciously applied it to TMS. It just kind of happened when I started "journaling" - aka writing shit down. For whatever reason my unconscious likes to take me on that journey.

I've noticed on the forum that a lot of people talk about how they already get angry and/or rage and it's not helping them.
The peeling away the onion to the inner "why's" might be the key.

 

Thanks, Jan.
I am curious what other people think about it. It seems like it is resonating.

 

I think some people get stuck in an angry mindset, we all know one of those “angry guys”. Dr. Hanscom has a lot of experience with these folks and says it’s a form of resistance that is difficult to work through because people cling to it. Perhaps for some, it’s easier and more acceptable than to maybe have self-compassion, or to feel sadness, shame or guilt.

 

I only just got this 'idea' the last time I had some tickles a month ago. "Thanks, I appreciate the help little fella, but I can handle this"
It TRIED to come back last week... but I used 'talking to it' and WHY and it never got a toe hold.

Funny. The final answer was "The other tradesmen got pulled off the Job and I am alone".... Most of my WHY's are about loneliness, and the unknown

 

Absolutely! I'm one of those people, and as you know, doing the '5 Whys' is definitely helping me.

 

Great technique for "peeling the onion" to ensure we get beneath the superficial to the core issue.

 

I tried using the 5 whys today and it came down to the core issue of worthlessness (due to abuse). I kinda think I’m probably 5 whys or less away from that on every question or issue in my life. No surprises there. So that’s not that helpful. BUT, I stuck with it and drilled down. Asking many more why’s and then writing freely in what came up and I got somewhere. Some big insights. (I’ll give you an example: it’s hard for me to cut off my abusive sister from my life because I like getting what I think is mothering from her, but which really isn’t.) This took me 8 pages. It was in depth. I have a weird feeling my sister is way at the top of reasons leading to my current stubborn round of TMS.

 

In business 5 Why's will get you to solutions.
In TMS you have to keep going to a good 7 - 10!

Wanna borrow my bat?

 

I think that there is more than a possibility that now you see the truth -- and you keep repeatedly seeing the truth through the journalling and '5 Why-ing' etc., that you're doing -- your attitude and approach will, as a consequence, more than likely change, for instance, toward your sister and you'll find yourself doing what needs to be done... as a kind of natural progression... because seeing the truth is liable to result in disentanglement. It may be that you'll cut your sister out of your life altogether or you'll find yourself being able to keep her at arm's distance or something in between. As you are aware, it's a process... and once you truly and deeply/viscerally 'see' something through doing 'the work', you can't unsee it -- I now believe full recovery isn't actually an intellectual affair... @Baseball65 has often said along the lines of that even people who are complete 'knuckleheads' can do it (which has always personally given me a lot of hope! ) Something I also didn't truly 'get' until recently is that you don't necessarily need to do anything about the stuff that you find is causing your TMS for the symptom(s) to subside, but that doesn't mean, of course, that we shouldn't do anything about stuff that isn't good for us and is preventing us from having as peaceful a life as possible.

 

I know you are relatively new to this, but something you just wrote, shook loose a TRUTH about TMS that I don't think is discussed often enough. I know how hard your working to beat this so I thought I'd tell ya.

I was on a new big project and all of a sudden one day I notice I am limping. I feel like a nail is going up into my heel on every step.
My Body doesn't tell me anything right away, because all of the usual angers and distractions(work, other guys, working with my sons, Deadlines, Money ,etc) are all in place...but THOSE angers are always there... I also am working UP a narrow switchback staircase carrying monstrous amounts of supplies to the top unit making me pissed (there was a wide front staircase we weren't allowed to use) , so my feet are ignored when they start hurting a little...until the Pain is there in every step.

When it becomes a nuisance, I go home and google it. Yep, it comes back 'Plantar Fascitis'... I know from this forum that PF is TMS. OK
NOW the work begins. WTF is making me need a new symptom?
I rule out all of the list I just enumerated because those are EVERY day and this is new.
I listed the staircase, Money, Working with my son, Pressure, heat , everything I knew about
I get the book out and start reading. READ, read, read, read...write , write, write , write, run, run, run , run....and somewhere during the 'therapy' I get the answer! Aha!

The Day the 'nail in the heel' started, I had been on the phone talking to my SISTER. She had been really pissed at my BROTHER about something. I have been trying to make them get along my whole life, but they just hate each other. When she complained to me about my brother being a dick (WHICH I AGREED WITH) I tried to assuage her anger and tell her to calm down and it was all for the best. (LIE< LIE< LIE...she was totally right...he IS a dick and was being extra dickish)

The SECOND I realized when the symptom actually began, IT LEFT. I mean That fricking minute, just like Sarno talking about the woman with bursitis in HBP.

If I didn't know about TMS, would that have happened? No. I would have slowly gotten focused on it, mildly obsessed and seen a Dr. They would have told me what I had and it would have scared me good and might have become a new 'permanent' concern of mine.

This is Detective work..and if individual symptoms are the result of 'specific emotional situations' , the better we get at identifying them, the quicker we can resolve the issue.

I sometimes wonder if Franz Alexander wasn't right about that

" -The patient, in order to be helped, must undergo a corrective emotional experience suitable to repair the traumatic influence of previous experiences. It is of secondary importance whether this corrective experience takes place during treatment in the transference relationship, or parallel with the treatment in the daily life of the patient."

and on our first trip through this, their is a BUNCH of those 'corrective emotional experiences'... then once the pain is GONE you still need to be vigilant about the ones you discovered through your work were the problems.

Last night I saw my ex GF. The one who triggered many TMS attacks.
I can't avoid her... this town isn't big enough. BUT, when I got alone, I reviewed OUT LOUD all of the things that angered me, and I told 'little marc' inside that we are NOT going to have any new symptoms over them. This begins as detective work, like what you are doing...if you are as sensitive as I am, Then you need to stay Vigilant about those...You don't have to hide, or change anything BUT you sure as hell need to 'advertise in your own head' because this stuff is subtle.

Detective work= Recovery ,,, Maintenance work=general great life!

Remember, Sarno said 'I don't treat pain' and 'Todays work prevents tomorrow's TMS'

peace

 

@Baseball65 , amazing. Your experience sounded like how my partner felt sometimes. He could eliminate newly popped symptoms such as wrist pain shortly. He is still not overly cheerful but tolerable and sometimes quite lovable. I just start doing a little bit journaling and using the 5 whys to see my emotions, since I am somewhat grumpy these days.

 

Makes sense it needs more whys. Haha! Yes, please!

 

You are so right, @BloodMoon! Once you know, you know. And now I really know. It has already changed how I’m behaving toward her. And it would be nice if there is an arm’s distance approach possible. But I’m finally starting to accept I’ll do whatever I have to do if it will help me feel better.

 

Marc, (@Baseball65),
Thank you for walking me through what you did. It really helps! And I especially love that you cap it off with talking out loud to your inner child. It is a lot of detective work. And it’s tricky. See, with you, just a phone conversation. But you found it. I have also learned that if I’m doing something I think I’m “suppposed” to do and it conflicts with how I really feel, it’s a problem. And what’s worse, I do it a lot without even knowing it.

 

Just wanted to highlight this line! Good one!

 

Also, the FAMILY stuff that was nigh invisible was way more important than the external, every day anger makers. Every now and then I get a symptom and it is obvious....I used to get a little sciatica every first day of a job .I work in construction so that is a lot of days...Obviously like most TMS sufferers I secretly fear I don't know WTF I am doing....But on the advice of Sarno, I always look at family and super close relationships...25 years has taught me that when it seems to come out of 'nowhere' it is always hidden in THERE.

I have a hunch that your weird feeling isn't weird at all...that's why I told you the story. Family stuff is deep...even in a family like mine that has never been close. I 'intellectually' think about them little, but in the TMS creating part of my Brain, I may as well still be 5.

 

I'm sitting watching TV last night and suddenly I get searing neck pain at the front of my neck, either side of where the thyroid gland is. I've never had pain like that in that region of my body before... Instead of immediately thinking "it's TMS", I think: "God, no, I'm not getting a goitre now, am I?!" (I have autoimmune hypothyroidism.) Then I slowed down and carefully thought about things, played detective, just like you advise, @Baseball65 ... What had I been doing before the pain started?... Doing the '5 Whys', that's what I had been doing... drilling down about my reactions and feelings about the difficult experience that I'd had with a consultant ophthalmologist that I recently saw again about my eye condition (which is not a TMS symptom) and then I realised that my brain didn't want me to drill down about that - I said: "nice try brain, picking on my thyroid, as that was bound to get my attention!" and then SHAZAM! -- the neck pain lessened and just a minute or two later, it had disappeared! Wow!