1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
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What else is there - Seriously

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by eskimoeskimo, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. TrustIt

    TrustIt Well known member

    if i may post one more of the dispenza testamonials. it covers so much and our bodies are so incredible. again, you can binge watch these on youtube on his channel.
    success stories are the most encouraging and supportive thing i do for myself!
    RogueWave, plum and Sita like this.
  2. Sita

    Sita Well known member

    Gretchen's story is amazing!

    I used to lift weights for many years but stopped about one and 1/2 years ago. I did it at home not at the gym, still have all I need here for doing it. Recently I got this crazy idea to start lifting again and to get stronger. I don't want to be skinny anymore or have abs, just to get stronger, that's all. I'm so out of shape now but I started small a few weeks ago by doing just a few squats and some stretching every other day for about 10 min/session. Feels so good. I'll increase gradually.

    Thanks for posting this, Trustit. It helps me stay motivated.
    RogueWave, plum and TrustIt like this.
  3. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    I agree with everything @plum wrote but I just wanted to add a couple more angles to this topic:

    1.) As @plum astutely points out, it can be a trap looking for reason why you're "different" from other humans with chronic pain (their symptoms are different, I've had it longer, they didn't have surgery like me...bla bla bla...I've heard them all). Don't fall into that trap.

    2.) Personality traits, like adverse childhood events (trauma) simply put a person at higher risk for developing TMS. It is only one piece of the puzzle and circumstantial evidence. These are also nuanced categories. Some people have terrible abuse in childhood for ex. (neglect, physical, sexual) and others have more subtle trauma that is like death of a million paper cuts (growing up with an ill parent, the death of a parent, competitive siblings, a narcissistic mom, high expectations ) etc. All of that can lead to cumulative stress and internal pressure. Add the personality type to the mix, and the brain is bound to go into fight or flight eventually. Another piece of the circumstantial evidence puzzle is adulthood stressors and daily life stressors (doing a job you despise, a bad marriage, etc.)

    3.) Getting back to specific personality traits, everything you describe @tgirl, of being non confrontational and avoidant fits the profile. When we don't assert ourselves and our needs, when we don't set boundaries that align with our core values, we are essentially betraying ourselves. When we worry about "rocking the boat" or "ruffling feathers", we are subconsciously putting others' needs and values above our own. That ties into people pleasing...caring more about others than we do ourselves. It is a form of self betrayal that leads to incredible emotional repression (rage) and internal pressure. Simply put, it's exhausting!!! The underlying core belief is "I'm not worthy" ("I don't deserve certain things") ...basically I'm not good enough to even take up space in this world. That is the core falsely held belief and it shows up a ton in TMS sufferers. It almost always stems from childhood and some kind of message that we internalized. The message may have been "don't disturb the waters" if you grew up with stressed out parents who may have had their own problems. In that example a child learns to hold things in and not bother their parents for fear of rejection or punishment.
  4. Duggit

    Duggit Well known member

    tgirl said:

    [T]here is something about the traits of TMS suffers that perplexes me. As far as being a people pleaser or a goodist, I feel I might be the opposite . . . . I’m wondering if you or others reading this have an opinion. It’s occurred to me that I might keep myself out of situations where I have to do excessive ‘nice’ things for others or have to be overly responsible. It’s almost as though I possess the opposite characteristics (some of them, anyway) of the typical TMSer, but the reason might be that I actively avoid these situations. Confrontation is not my strong point. . . . I suppose this could be construed as my looking for reasons I don’t fit the model . . . .
    My opinion, tgirl, is that you "fit the model" exactly. I will explain by referring to an interview that Alan Gordon did with Laura Seago (of the Curable app) on her "like mind like body" podcast. The interview is titled We're All Just A Bundle of Neural Pathways.

    You said you avoid situations where you "have to do excessive 'nice' things for others or have to be overly responsible," and this is because "[c]onfrontation is not my strong point." Here is what Alan Gordon said in the interview about neural pathway pain, which is the same thing as Sarno called TMS and TMS equivalents: "[E]veryone who develops neural pathway pain by definition on some primitive level doesn't feel entirely safe in the world. Maybe it's something as simple as learning early on that certain emotions were not OK. So when those emotions come up, your brain is like 'danger!' Or maybe you grow up in an environment where intimacy wasn't OK. So anytime you feel close to someone . . . danger. Or maybe you grew up where confrontation was scary. Whatever it is, there's something where on a primitive level you don't feel all the way safe." (I added the emphasis.)

    The interviewer then asked: "So it might not be immediately obvious what's happening and what the connection is?"
    Gordon responded: "Exactly. And that's one of the things that we're doing with patients--targeting what it is that their brain is perceiving as dangerous, and then we're trying to teach their brain that this thing that they learned was dangerous is actually safe."

    In response to a question about the role of fear in chronic pain, Gordon said this: "I don't even look at the pain as something to stamp out. I look at it more as a barometer for how safe the primitive brain feels. It's just the body and the brain's way of letting us know that the primitive brain feels unsafe. Pain is a danger signal, and it's the fear and the preoccupation around the pain that determines whether or not this danger signal stays activated or shuts off. So one of the things we want to do is we want to target whatever it is that the brain is perceiving is dangerous - whether it's certain emotions, whether it's intimacy, whether it's confrontation, whether it's chairs . . . (people with back pain actually start to see chairs as dangerous) . . . ." (Again, I added the emphasis.)

    The full podcast interview, where Gordon further explains his treatment approach, is available on iTunes or Google Podcasts. Of course, his approach is well laid out in his new Pain Recovery Program available on this website, but the podcast interview adds useful overall perspective (or so I think, anyway).
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
    zclesa, TG957, birdsetfree and 2 others like this.
  5. TrustIt

    TrustIt Well known member

    Something profound hit me a couple of days ago that was very insightful in evaluating my self-worth and how that is related to my symptoms. On the surface, I thought of myself as ok in the self-esteem department. Then I began thinking through my relationships, I was astounded (and completely unconscious of all of it) at the judgement and criticism I have of myself. So much regret began to surface as I thought about all my lifelong relationships. I could have been a better mother; a better daughter; a better sibling; a better wife; a better friend...so many instances when I could have done something differently, something kinder, something more helpful. I do tell myself now that I did the best I could at that time under those circumstances, but it certainly pushes the guilt and shame buttons and boom...symptoms! When we know better, we do better. Until then, we are innocent.
    TG957, birdsetfree, Balsa11 and 3 others like this.
  6. tgirl

    tgirl Well known member

    Miffybunny and Duggit. Thank you both for your thoughtful responses. I will reread them for sure.
    miffybunny likes this.
  7. Balsa11

    Balsa11 Well known member

    As soon as I read the personality thing it became a really annoying label, probably a vestigial thing from outdated psychoanalysis. Screw labels- they really limit us. The only thing we have in common is somatic repression of emotions. Type A/B doesn't really mean anything much in terms of doing the TMS work.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
    MariaK and tgirl like this.
  8. MariaK

    MariaK New Member

    I'm sorry, Plum. I didn't mean any disrespect to you or the other folks who have put so much effort into helping him. I'll take your message to heart.
    plum, TrustIt and Balsa11 like this.
  9. Balsa11

    Balsa11 Well known member

    Basically making happiness conditional stokes the flames. We don't need a reason to be happy
    TrustIt likes this.
  10. Idearealist

    Idearealist Peer Supporter

    Indeed, this is the thread to end all threads xD. It's been helpful reading about everyone's experiences. Thanks for starting this, @eskimoeskimo.
    gipfel65, Marls and TrustIt like this.
  11. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    It’s really ok sweetheart. Please be the generous soul you are, the world needs all the kindness we can muster. Your words to Eskimo were lovely and considered. I hope he read and reflected upon them.

    With love ❤️
    TrustIt and MariaK like this.
  12. TG957

    TG957 Beloved Grand Eagle

    I know the feeling. For some reason, cleaning the bathrooms, all those white, smooth, shiny surfaces feels especially meditative to me. Go figure!
  13. Hillbilly

    Hillbilly Peer Supporter

    Wow! This is pure gold. I have been lurking around here for a few weeks and still feel like I’m a little lost at the Smithsonian with all the different forums, subforums, treatment plans and chats. I don’t think much of that is useful to someone who needs to find a plain-spoken voice of reasoned experience on how to heal and get back to life. This post should be printed out and taped to 1,000 couches of wiki members.
    RogueWave likes this.
  14. eskimoeskimo

    eskimoeskimo Well known member

    Thanks for taking the time to write this compassionate message @MariaK

    I will think more on what you said
    MariaK likes this.
  15. eskimoeskimo

    eskimoeskimo Well known member

    Thanks, that's nice of you to say @Idearealist

    I hope it does more good than harm for others
  16. eskimoeskimo

    eskimoeskimo Well known member

    I'm sorry I can't get on board with this Joe Dispenza cure cancer with positive thinking stuff
  17. eskimoeskimo

    eskimoeskimo Well known member

    I think it's possible to fit anybody into this 'type' if you're trying to
  18. eskimoeskimo

    eskimoeskimo Well known member

    I've read that Abraham Low book 60 times and tried to adopt its prescriptions ... not passingly, not fleetingly, and not half-heartedly, but with everything I could muster.
  19. eskimoeskimo

    eskimoeskimo Well known member

    My worst fear has come to pass. My worst fear is not that something catastrophic should happen of a sudden. Hell I've prayed for a heart attack. My worst fear is that this suffering should continue. And it has. You'll say it's of my own doing, but the interventions based on this premise do not work.
  20. RogueWave

    RogueWave Well known member

    And yet here you are.

    I’m failing to understand your position here. We have plenty of people here who have cured themselves, or who are making progress in the process of, who are sharing their time and energy. Yet you seem to not believe anyone, and even seem to try and make people doubt their own experience.

    We have shared stories of other people who have cured themselves through other means. And you don’t believe any of that either.

    Do you see the problem here? I don’t know you outside of here, but I’m going to go further and say you’ve probably been keeping yourself in this dynamic for quite some time now. And not just here.

    So why are you still here, other than to validate your own misery? I have seen no change in your tone since I’ve been here, which means you haven’t changed at all. And I don’t mean your symptoms.

    I have learned over many years of dealing with people that compassion only goes so far. After a certain point it just enables the behavior to continue. I have seen families of drug addicts wiped out financially and emotionally by constantly trying to help, when the addict themselves do nothing other than to go to an expensive rehab, and then just resume the same behaviors once they get out.

    Therefore, this will absolutely be my last response to this. Everything has been said already.

    The ‘cure’ is in you. Find your OWN way. But no book, person, technique or anything else will matter if you don’t think that that is possible. You will just give up, again and again.

    So you’ve tried approaches that didn’t work. So? Does that mean nothing will? No.

    Research people healing themselves. There are plenty, and its tremendously inspiring. It’s a start. And it will show you that there isn’t only one way.

    I recently read Moorjani’s book ‘Dying to Be Me.’
    Here was a woman who is in the hospital with late stage cancer, and just waiting to die. She had sores all over her body, and was just clinging to life. This is extremely well documented in the book. She technically died, had an out of body experience, and in that moment had a realization that her cancer was due to emotional issues. When she was resuscitated, her cancer completely healed in a short period of time. Again this is all documented very clearly with pictures and medical reports. But you’d probably try and deny her story as well, and miss the entire point.

    You don’t have to have that experience to get better, but it’s an inspiring story. And it’s just one example.

    If you keep doing what you are doing, constantly only focusing on what doesn’t work and why it doesn’t work, and trying to make everyone else wrong, you will stay stuck just like you are now.

    But it doesn’t have to be that way.

    I really hope to see you make progress and then continue to post here. We all obviously care about you or we wouldn’t be responding.

    The choice is yours.
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021

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