Not sure TMJ is actually mindbody, anyone can help?

Hi everyone,
I’ve been dealing with tight jaw muscles for at least 10 years, also sensitive and painful teeth, crackling sound when I swallow, headaches and face pain,.. I saw an orthodontist and he told me I probably need a surgery to expand my palate in order to correct my crossbite so that my teeth align well. However my psychiatrist told me it’s all stress related, and my other dentist tells me its not structural but rather clenching/grinding related.
This left me very confused because I really don’t know whether my symptoms are structural or purely TMS.

If anyone has had a similar experience and could give me his opinion it would be super nice. Or direct me to something helpful.

To give a little more context, I’m a 27 years old male and I’ve been dealing with a host of mindbody symptoms pretty much my whole life. Stress, anxiety, high blood pressure, intrusive thoughts, tmj, breathing issues, GI symptoms and all that fun stuff..
Until 4 years ago a time when I was under much pressure at university and work, my nervous system broke down and I was completely debilitated with severe symptoms (depersonnalization, chronic fatigue, chronic migraines, couldnt think, couldnt walk, couldnt do anything pretty much). The situation improved somewhat but I still have these tmj symptoms and depersonalization, anxiety.

Many thanks to everyone and have a nice day.

 

Welcome @belgian_guy

I have a lifelong battle with a small palette. It started with teeth being pulled around 2-3 years of age because they couldn't all fit in my jaw.
Braces, orthodontia work... what that did to me actually made me incredibly self conscious about my teeth, myself, appearance, fitting in etc. I was taunted, made fun and beaten up mercilessly for my appearance as a child what made it worse was my sensitivity about it.

Later on, I began having pain. None of it was jaw related, but it was noticed that I clench my jaw and hold tension in my eyes and face. It's not the cause of my pain but the indication that I didn't realize I had so much anxiety.

Tooth pain occasionally became a TMS symptom in the last 10 years or so. My current dentist is very open minded and began exploring the cause with me, because he isn't convinced that TMJ and unexplained dental pain are structural. He found no correlation between patients except possible STRESS. So free of charge he would check my teeth quickly, when I felt pain (even doing xrays). Nothing wrong. Jaw and facial tension.
We did this many times and he finally asked me to go in and explain Dr. Sarno's theories. I did, and he suggested that some of his patients did feel better when he gave them a small plastic splint for TMJ - that he could at least relieve some tension that way but it was never the answer.

Last year he and his staff went to a conference (which was local) on stress and dentistry - in particular TMJ and phantom tooth pain. He was so frustrated that he would be referring his patients to someone who wanted thousands of dollars to treat the TMJ which rarely worked...my dentist can give a splint for less than $100 and then begin explaining Dr. Sarno's theories of stress.

Personally, I'd try whatever your psychiatrist and dentist suggest - or that we suggest here because the programs at this website are FREE. It can't hurt to think that it could be stress related and that you might be able to resolve your symptoms. Why not give it a try. It will certainly cost a lot less than the surgery the orthodontist is suggesting. If you do go back to see him, why not ask what the success rate and the recovery time for that surgery is? That might help you see that there could be other methods to alleviating your discomfort and fixing and focus on the symptoms.

Free self guided program:
https://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Structured_Educational_Program (Structured Educational Program)

 

Oh yes, the jaw seems to be a classic place for a lot of us. Tight jaw, pain in teeth, etc etc. All of that.
I'll bet you can even feel the tightness in that area too, right? Even though you can't stop from tightening those muscles except for a few seconds when consciously trying?

You have two out of three people saying it's not structural. You've got nothing to lose by assuming it's TMS and taking action.

If you are seeing a psychiatrist, can you ask him or her if you can spend some time focusing on hidden rage that might be buried deep under the surface?

 

I had TMJ for over 3 years non stop (for no apparent reason; it suddenly started one day out of the blue). I then discovered these recommendations from dental specialist, Professor Crispian Scully CBE, from renowned The Eastman Dental Hospital, London, UK, which I trusted and followed, and my TMJ gradually went away over the course of a few months https://exodontia.info/wp-content/u...nction_-_4_steps_to_manage_jaw_joint_pain.pdf. If you notice, along with an exercise to do etc., one of the recommendations is to "relax and practise stress reduction" -- which chimes with TMS. (Obviously, check with your dentist that it's okay for you to follow these recommendations should you wish to try them.)

 

Thanks!
So the small palate is not the cause of your symptoms in your opinion?

The thing is I do believe there is a big stress component causing my symptoms but when there’s an orthodontist that tells you you probably need surgery then how are you going to fully believe in the TMS work ?
I mean if I’m stuck in doubting where this is structural or mindbody then I will never be able to fully reduce the stress response (assuming this is the cause).

+ I’m dealing with many nervous system related symptoms for some years (anxiety, depersonalization, chronic fatigue, migraines,..) so I would be super happy NOT to do the surgery because it will most likely drain and fatigue an already exhausted body..

 

Right.. but even when I massage or go to physical therapy for my jaw it doesn’t seem to help the symptoms much which is weird.

The psychiatrists here is Belgium don’t actually go in depth into your psyche they just prescribe medication.

 

Thanks I will look at the recommendations!

 

Nope, I don’t. My sister had similar but less extensive issues as I did as a child and had migraines but has overcome them. Classic TMS. She was never “diagnosed” with jaw or dental issues as an adult.
Your belief in TMS really begins to solidify doing the work. You begin to note changes in your mindset, self-thoughts, awareness of triggers and the cycles of symptoms, how your personality traits and thought patterns were probably developed and the possibility that you harbor a deep rage, shame, guilt or sadness about so many things you felt you could never express. This is often about people you love or think you should like (and or put up with), society, sometimes aging and how we feel about ourself in relationship to these things. The psychology differs from most traditional psychology because instead of thinking about this stuff you are guided to feel it viscerally, physically -because the emotions we push away are physical sensations which many folks with TMS don’t allow themselves to experience.

This means allowing discomfort to take its course instead of fearing it, so that we can see it for what it is. Most of the time it is just sensation but a small percentage of the time it’s truly physical.
You’ve had 2 doctors say this is not operable, one who makes his living doing operations say it is.. why not get another orthodontic opinion? Look for someone who tends to lean towards conservative treatments?

 

Which is not weird at all. That's actually the point.
Massaging and physical therapy don't alleviate the reason for the jaw tightening.
Once you release the hidden mental tension that is tucked away your body will stop the tightening. It won't have any need to tighten.

 

If you want to use a therapist (which will not be TMS informed most likely, as @JanAtheCPA says - read a book by Dr. Sarno, and I pointed you with a link to our free program here) along with reading Sarno and doing the free program - look for a therapist who uses ISDTP, EMDR or IFS - these are all forms of mind body therapy although they do not offer the precise and pointed work for chronic pain that Dr. Sarno or the program offers.

 

I’ve done the online assessments recommended on Dan Buglio’s youtube channel (Pain Free You) and it says that it is highly likely that my symptoms are mindbody instead of structural. I will have another orthodontic opinion in a week or so let’s see what he says.. Thank you!

 

Actually I’ve been doing some research about mindbody syndromes for some time. I listen a lot to Dan Buglio’s youtube channel Pain Free You and it is really interesting. However his explanation of symptoms differs quite a bit from Dr Sarno. He says that when the nervous system is too stressed it reacts with physical symptoms whereas Sarno states that painful emotions not expressed are then turned into physical symptoms as a distraction strategy. Or there’s also Dan Ratner I love to listen to, he focusses more on doubt. Just doubting that the symptoms are mindbody or not can keep the symptoms going in itself. That’s his main idea.

I have a really hard time to make sense of all this. So it’s not that I’m reluctant to doing emotional work it’s more that I don’t want go a route which distances me from recovery. Going deep into emotions and childhood etc I found is like going in the middle of an ocean I feel lost very quick. Psychoanalysis, hypnosis, psychotherapy,… didn’t help me at all.

Why do you think the primitive brain is trying to keep me (or orher sufferers) stuck in a state of uncertainty and fear ?
Many thanks!

 

You are right @belgian_guy,
There are some differences between practitioners.
However, the first thing you need to recognize is where the practitioners are coming from. Sarno was a family doctor first, then the head of rehabilitation at a time when there wasn't a huge amount of discussion about the nervous system. Since he wrote his books, so much more to do with the physical nature and psychology of the nervous system has evolved, and also, Sarno was particular in that he wrote only what he felt he really knew (and not all has proven to be true, like his oxygen theories). Buglio doesn't discuss emotions as much, because he isn't a psychologist and I think he doesn't feel qualified to deal with that side of his clients. Many of his channel clients have said they did get psychological help outside of working with him (and many guests in the past are just guests and never actually worked with him and have discussed a bit of their psychological journeys).
Dan Ratner is actually a clinical psychologist who has turned pain specialist and what you witness on his channel and what he offers on his website is only a selection of the assistance he offers people in general. His private practice was much different and he clearly discusses the emotional and mindset work he had to go through in the past to get where he is today. His focus on doubt is to instill confidence in people that they can master this work, and master their emotional life.

So you see, when you step outside of looking only at a small part of these practitioners, they have much more in common than they do differences. I understand your thought process, I actually felt the same way you do at first, because you are doing what is often termed as "intellectualizing" or gathering more knowledge than you need - which is simply another mind defense.

Your primitive brain is geared to keep you safe and alive. It is directly tied to your nervous system and when it is stuck in fight/flight/freeze it is on the highest alert. For some reason your brain thinks you aren't safe and your life is somehow in peril. By creating symptoms both physical, mental, emotional and perhaps spiritually, it thinks it will be able to keep you safe. This effects different people to different degrees, so finding your way to freedom can vary from person to person. We're all human and our experiences are all different, however some people have common general experiences and it's well documented (even Sarno had his methods of documentation for this) that some folks won't be able to feel better with Sarno's basic and direct approach, which is why he worked with psychologists.

You can try a more direct approach if you'd like - that is Alan Gordon's Pain Reprocessing which is somewhat like Sarno's approach but has a few clear differences (Somatic Tracking is one difference) - Gordon tries to reduce fear so that your primitive brain can sense the reality of your safety and then effect the nervous system. He is now also incorporating more of a psychological approach for those who need it (changing the way he is training his practitioners), but his book really mostly focuses on fear as another TMS symptom to overcome. The Pain Recovery Program offered on this site is a predecessor to his current PRT work.

So what is the take away - you need to conquer your fear of symptoms, but also conquer your fear emotionally and mentally. This is the beginning of the work. Then you need to begin to open yourself up to the world and be able to manage life and things that trigger your pain without fearing the triggers, your fear and the sensations in your body. This will calm the nervous system eventually and send messages to your brain that you are safe. These are the basics across the board although they are explained in various ways. The methods are simply the smorgasbord from which you can choose. Not choosing means you will continue with pain and symptoms, and possibly chasing physical "cures". Choosing a method means you will BEGIN to get an idea of what can work for you, and what direction you need to go to get to the point you feel "healed". In other words, this doesn't have to be so black and white. Part of some TMS personality traits are the legalistic mind and intellectualizing that keeps people from taking a leap of faith in themselves.

 

I had TMJ a few years ago when I seemed to be under a bunch of stress. My dentist noticed it and the pressure I was putting on my molars as a result. She prescribed a mouth-tooth insert to wear at night, which I did for a while. Then the TMJ went down when I was no longer under the same level of stress and I stopped wearing the insert. TMJ went away. Lately, a few years later, when I was under stress, it came back as tooth grinding and a pain in my left neck. Sure seems like TMS! I always have TMS in the left side of my back incidentally. Sure seems like my TMJ and my TMS are interrelated, no doubt about it. Get rid of stress and get rid of TMJ and TMS.

 

TMS occurs in the brain and psyche of humans. This is the most complex organism that exists in the known universe. Those of us who have recovered from TMS struggle to explain the exact mechanisms at play and exactly how we overcame our symptoms. But we try because we want to help others to overcome TMS like we have. Something that we did worked, but it can be hard to articulate exactly what it was. In my success story I resorted to listing all the things I did, though I'm not sure if all were necessary. Since writing that I've struggled to narrow it down to its essence. I suspect this is true of all the recovered TMSers out there who are trying to help others recover.

Ultimately you have to find your own path. Pick a method that has worked for others and commit to it fully. If you still have TMS after giving it your all, pick another method and so on...We are so blessed right now to have so many books, workbooks, podcasts, therapists and doctors who specialize in TMS, movies, etc. Don't let the abundance of resources paralyze you. They have all worked for some people. Don't get stuck in the paralysis of analysis.

 

I think this is one of the best postings that I've read about recovery from TMS @Ellen -- I'm expecting that I will quote or link to it when I reply to people who are asking about what exactly 'the work' is.

I was just wondering - if/when you've had any relapses, what TMS work is your 'go to' thing (or things) that you do to get over those blips? (As I'm thinking that might indicate what the main/important strategies were that got you better.)

Another mystery to me regarding how the TMS brain works is why for some of us (e.g. me!) we experience a lot of profound improvement doing 'the work', yet not full recovery. (It's like my brain no longer sets off symptoms at the volume of a fog horn, but has instead settled on ringing some hand bells.)

 

This whole thing (TMJ) sounds like migraine to me!!! I had a lot of those symptoms and now feel amazing. What have you done to prevent migraine? Good luck!!!