Sarno - Deep Emotions

Thanks to Diana-M for her direction to the SEP and Baseball65 for his advice. I did some deep soul searching this morning to figure out why I feel so much pain and this is what flowed from me. This is a message to Diana-M and Baseball65 for my gratitude. I do not know if my child unconscious will alleviate the pain now that I'm on to the game being played out by the ID & EGO but it was very cathartic to let this out and to become aware of why I feel so angry (covertly) right now:

By the way I'm looking to try EMDR therapy with a psychotherapist - does anyone recommend this? Also, I wanted to ask a question to this forum whether Alan Gordon is contactable and whether he has visibility to this forum? Can I get in touch with him?

"I feel a lot of sadness and sorrow for a missed childhood and the struggles I faced into adulthood. Sadness and sorrow for what I could have been in terms of life. By which I mean career, happiness, love, support ... a genuine family. All the things that I expect and should be expected. Life could have been easier but was made hard, very hard for me. That makes me angry somewhat but more sadness and sorrow. I guess I'm upset for what could have been in terms of my 'self' and who I would have been had it not been for the abuse (severe neglect) I encountered as a child. Who would I have been? What would I have done in my life? What sort of life would I have? Indeed I have been robbed of a good childhood and life was made so incredibly challenging in terms of dating, finding a career, making a name for myself. However, the way I see it is that the challenges inflicted upon me made me who I am today and I'm proud of that. So many struggles made me who I am and I would never have had that strength of character if life was easier. By easier I mean having support, love and feeling valued. At the end of the day I do love my 'self' 'as is'. Whatever I have achieved is largely down to me, my drive and emotional strength. I do think I need to show my emotions more and not accept any form of abuse from anyone including from authority. My main issue. I think accepting emotional abuse, especially in my career, and even recently at work by RS, was unacceptable (and formerly by TG). Also being used by family members (my sister) is unacceptable and I must focus on my 'self' more although I was unaware of being used at the time. From now on my 'self' must be prioritised and the 'self' deserves respect and nothing less. I guess that is what has been missing and I think that stems from a low value of 'self' from childhood who never stood up to authority. I wish I did and I wish I pushed back more but I didn't and now my body has created physical pain to distract me from this painful fact. I think being independent gave me self worth, and perhaps moving back to the old "family" home and being dependent on an authority figure "at the time of being child" is too painful to bear. Perhaps there is anger and resentment within me that I didn't sand up to anyone and just misbehaved as a child in response to that ... then later, as a teenager, too well behaved and acted in a very responsible way i.e. succumbed to authority rather than standing up for myself. I think the not standing up for my 'self' and just being a good citizen/subservient is at the core of inner anger. Perhaps it is something I do not like about my 'self' and having to go back to the old abusive home was, again, a reminder of losing independence and having to live by other people's rules. Once again control being taken away from me and control is, perhaps, the key element from all of this i.e. losing control and lack of independence. As a child I was dominated and had very little control to act and behave as I wanted i.e. the freedom to be my 'self'. There was so much control imposed upon me and that is, perhaps, now my greatest fear including being lied to by others for self gain The removal of freedoms and being lied to (about the heath risk of covid) during the COVID era also threatened the loss of control and that shook me to the core and that ordinary citizens were so subservient to authority and just believed what they were told (perhaps they trusted authority something entrenched in their minds from childhood i.e. that authority is always benevolent). I think I worked so hard to build as much financial wealth as I could so that I could be independent of ever having to rely on anybody i.e. to be free from the tethers of those that want to or will try to control my behaviours/actions. I think this is the heart of the pain and the struggles I have had for a long time now. I never want to be controlled or become dependent on anyone ever! It goes against the values of my 'self' and goes to the heart of who I am. It's a recurring scenario throughout my life. That is the core of my self image i.e. maintain the locus of control within me. In losing that i.e. brings the feelings of the loss of control from childhood. I think there's a feeling of self disgust that I went back to my old childhood home i.e. the command centre of abuse and that has caused seething rage within because that is my fundamental belief in life i.e. to be independent, self sufficient and do whatever I can to maintain that. I also have a lot of sadness and severe rage on my sister who didn't help me during my most vulnerable times and gently nudged me to move back to my old childhood home. I believe I had no choice as I just couldn't look after myself but had I had alternative options I would have taken them. I do hate myself for going back. The abuse was a book I closed a long time ago and whatever triggered my original sickness (?) then going back has resurfaced a lot of inner emotions: anger at what I've done as it is contradictory to my core beliefs and my self image. My body feels stressed, painful and my abdominal muscles are tight (making it hard to breathe) and I think that's the inner turmoil. Perhaps this anger goes deep to the essence and core of who I am and what makes me ... me. This I know but it isn't a permanent state i.e. I had to do what I had to do to survive under the circumstances. I know I will go back to my independence, self sufficiency and be the king of my own domain once again. Empires do fall but some empires can rise up from the rubble of self destruction and be powerful once again. I am that empire and I will rise up and prevail as I have always done. However, I will make a promise to myself that I will never allow any malevolent authority to control me in any way shape or form. The cost to my sanity and mental wellbeing is just too great."

 

Thank you, Jan. I loose hope some days. It's unimaginable that I'm unable to sit on a standard chair without being in agonising pain. I do deserve all that good and I deserve to live as other people do. Sitting, breathing and sleeping without pain are basic human needs.

 

There is a place in the Bible where Moses has to crawl into a hole and let GOD pass by...God covers Moses' face. He is not allowed to see Gods Face, but he is allowed to see Gods 'nether parts' i.e. God's Butt.

Doing this work, a lot of the time's when we say stuff, we are really telling you about God's Butt...I didn't really understand what was going on but afterwards, I could tell what happened. First I had to stop LYING, which was simply me saying "I am OK, my life is peachy, everything is cool except this pain". I was living a life I didn't choose but rolling with the punches, was as good as I could come up with.
I wrote stuff like what You just told us here. That is good. That is exposing our self deception.

Now, let it settle, and piece by piece, why would this story enflame our ID or perma child? The one that never goes away and that we have little access too? THAT list will be the most helpful to our recovery, or at least it was for mine. That was God's Butt.
e.g. I got to do Everything I wanted to as long as it didn't cost mom any money.....(anger about $)
All the way to Jail... (anger neglect).....Numerous times (anger +)...I got kicked out of school with a 4.0 on the honor roll, but my mom neglected to get my records sent to the next school and a year later I was a Drop-out working three jobs (rage)

I don't need to protect her anymore by admitting what a dick I was...I just have to root out the anger no matter how childish or 'unfair'....TMS People are NOT wired to think about that , which is why we get the pain. We have to 'go there' and look at that anger...at least I did.

Good work. Keep going.

 

Mike,
Oh my gosh, this post is smokin’ hot! What a scorching great realization and deep emotional dump you did on Day One. Super good work!!! Your willingness to look at the pain is going to be your greatest asset!

Amen brother! And it’s hard to learn how to push back. It’s almost like a foreign language and it’s scary. But phenomenally liberating. That’s one of the things you’ll learn on your journey here— how to set yourself free and tell the truth for once in your life.

It’s really cool you stumbled on this right out of the gate. I discovered recently that threats to what you consider to be your self image are very conducive to creating TMS.

What’s really hard about TMS is sometimes you become so weak that you need help from people— and you have to ask the very people who caused the TMS— for the help. What a double bind! It’s also hard to lose power at all. And many TMSers do because they’re unable to work anymore (that happened to me.) But, it can all be spun into gold. Trust me. All is not lost. You will be refined into the most amazing person. Just keep on going! You will find a way out of every single cage.

I’m so sorry you’re having trouble breathing, I bet that’s scary! It’s very common for TMS people to have spastic muscles. My whole body has been clenched for a couple years. And it did happen during the pandemic because of loss of power, and terror, like you said.

I mentioned in my other post: Hope and Help for your Nerves, by Claire Weekes is a great healing book of insight about how adrenaline is impacting you.

You will be more than a king when you get through this!

You already have everything it takes to kick this thing. And I totally believe you that you will never submit to malevolent authority ever again. You can even begin by getting rid of people in your life that are hurting you (when you can.) That’s one of the things I learned here. It’s an extremely painful cleanup job but it’s also phenomenally healing. After you get past the pain of the lies you tell yourself that these people need to be in your life— and then you deliver the blow that they’re going to be getting out of your life (which comes as a big shock to them!)— then this huge wave of relief rolls over you. (I recently had to get rid of my narcissist sister and (so far) severely cut back interaction with my oldest son. I’ve also had to get out some friends and even a church that wasn’t working for me.)

I’m so excited for you! You’re definitely going to get better. You’re on the road. Now, you’re not alone and the stuff you’re going to learn is the treasure of a lifetime.

 

Hi @mikeinlondon
I utilized EMDR after trying ISDTP - both are TMS recommended.
However EMDR worked to me to ease the mental suffering and anxiety without even fully needing use talk therapy with the therapist.
My recommendation is to look for someone who explains it’s basic theory, hides you through a session or two of “background” work, and allows you to feel some trust and unjudgemental acceptance (both ways) before the actual treatment sessions begin. Trust is the biggest factor, even though much of the work is unspoken.
My sessions ended, under the therapists guidance before I felt “well” but there is a cumulative effect, which was very noticeable over time but especially a few months after sessions ended. It was remarkable.
Did it help my pain? No.
It helped my tolerate the physical symptoms of anxiety so that it no longer created more anxiety. It also somehow filed (in my brain) situations and experiences as in the past (the subconscious knows no time on its own). It worked fantastically in tandem with the SEP.
I never found my TMS trigger, however discovered many smaller things that triggered intense emotion in the past. My therapist is convinced I was subjected to infantile abuse and probably sexual abuse. I don’t my remember that and don’t need to delve any further right now. Acceptance I and knowledge is enough thanks to EMDR.

Btw: my therapist didn’t agree with much of Sarno’s theories. We never discussed my physical pain and didn’t need to.
Ps I could not sit, or stand. Now I walk miles and sit as I want!

 

The unconscious emotions that are at the core of these TMS-type disorders are not likely to be changed by actions that you are taking in your present life. My experience with these phenomenon suggests that guessing from the higher areas of the brain will not really make much of a difference. The area that is holding the repressed memories from childhood and early life is located further down in the mid-brain and the brainstem. That's not to say that increasing your awareness of your emotional health cannot be of some benefit, but the mechanics of repression expressly forbid the neocortex from making direct contact with the source of the trouble. The brain is keeping a secret for a reason, and that reason is obscured from our judgement.

What I see here is a solid guess as to the content of the repressed material. I remember making many such analyses myself when I first started Sarno's protocol. The trouble is that you are guessing from your cortex, which has only an intellectual understanding of what might be bothering you. Also, by definition, if you are aware of the emotion, that emotion is not repressed. We are sort of like the captain of a ship, standing on the deck and trying to guess at what may be going on in the engine room. If the engineer were to come up to the deck, we would have a greater understanding of the issue. Until those lines of communication can be established, however, we are really in the dark.

The most concise description of the subconscious that I've found is Arthur Janov's theory, which describes the three lines of consciousness as separated by the developmental timeline of the brain. An explanation can be found in the book Primal Healing... on pages 59-74. Although Janov passed away several years ago, his blog is still archived online: Janov's Reflections on the Human Condition: The Simple Truth is Revolutionary. You may find some answers there.

 

Scott. Thanks for your reply. What is therefore the benefit of Journaling and Pain Reprocessing Therapy if the repressed emotions can never be visible? If we are in the dark how can we ever free ourselves from the shackles of the pain that plague our lives?

 

The benefit of journaling from Sarno's perspective was to get the patient to focus on their psychology rather than their physiology. Most people that have TMS do not need to develop any awareness of what their repressed emotions are to get better, however. Accepting the diagnosis and returning to normal activity is what tends to bring relief.

I'm not familiar with Pain Reprocessing Therapy, so I can't really speak to the efficacy of that treatment. There are a lot more theories and practices today than there were when I started my recovery.

 

Dr. Sarno explicitly states that people need to acknowledge and look for their inner rage - which is most often a repressed emotion. He also sent many clients to psychotherapists for this express purpose. Understanding the possibility and reasons for repressing such deep emotion is, for many (most) patients what is needed for long term recovery.
Several schools of psychology are now only beginning to understand why this might be necessary for some people with anxiety, OCD, physical pain and the need for distraction from deep emotion. Sarno proved for whatever reason, this deep reflection works.
The idea that one doesn’t need deep emotional reflection is less like Sarno’s theories and more like Alan Gordon’s pain reprocessing or the approachDan Buglio uses.

 

Thx. Are you both (Scott & Cactus) now healed? If so what worked for you?

 

Am I 100% symptom free? No. I lead a relatively normal life and am about 80% better than I was a few years ago. What worked for me is a combination of things after trying many different approaches. It was being able to see my anxiety, change my mindset, define my beliefs, and allow for deep emotional understanding that helped me drop many of my fears in life (in general) and move forward.

 

Thank for sharing. What do you think most helped you sit/stand? You said EMDR helped your anxiety but what helped reduce the pain? Do you have any insight or advice for me? Anything would be appreciated. I do not fear the pain I'm experiencing as I've come to the conclusion that it will not kill me or harm me physically. However, the pain/discomfort is impacting my quality of life and I have contempt for my ID/EGO for perpetrating this suffering on me. Perhaps there is a fear deep within that the pain and suffering will drive me to insanity to the point of suicide or being admitted to mental institution. That is self destruction by the ID/EGO. I am so angry at my ID/EGO. I feel that function of the brain no longer serves me. I have so much to live for and how dare the ID/EGO put me through this! The suffering I have endured over the past eight months has been extreme and most people in my life have been so shocked by what I went through. My mother, who is tough as nails, said she wouldn't wish it on her worst enemy. I was even laughed out of hospital for the absurdity of the symptoms and I'm irate at my unconscious for putting me through hell. If the ID/EGO thinks frightening feelings in my subconscious is worse than what it put me though then I'm at a loss as nothing can be more traumatic than what I've been through. It makes me so angry! It's embarrassing, painful and traumatic in itself. Far more trauma was caused by what the ID/EGO has done than any external entity (and that's a bold statement). In all honesty they [ID/EGO] have caused more suffering than my childhood perpetrators ever did. I have such contempt for the ID/EGO. I have heard of people committing suicide because of psych symptomatic symptoms and I'm not surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't aware of TMS and thought that they were probably mad as they were dismissed by the medical community. I am certainly not mad but I'm held in a 24x7 torture chamber by my own brain that is supposed to be my ally and, to me, that is a hard pill to swallow. I am perfectly safe but my unconscious is behaving like a lion is violently headed towards me. I appreciate the unconscious has no concept of time but I'm NOT in any danger. How can I get it to accept this fact? I was so sane before all this. A rational, professional and calm adult. If the ID/EGO wishes to play childish games to protect itself then it selves their own selfish desires and not mine. It is therefore a bully and, like I said, no longer serves me. Sometimes talking in this way makes me sound insane as I am one person but in reality I (the self) is me i.e. the conscious. I am not my unconscious and I had always thought that it's supposed to work for me. For most of my life it was my ally and now it's my arch rival and I have nothing but irate feelings towards it!

 

Hi Mike,

I read some parts of your first comment a few minutes ago and some parts of others' responses here. I read selectively so I don't get triggered, I still have to do this for my mental health.

I did EMDR for c-ptsd and it helped me a lot. I had a wonderful psychotherapist, no BS woman. She's actually teaching other therapists this method, so good she is... A friend of my husband recommended her. I've done only 6 sessions with her, one every month and then 2 more sessions (once a month again) to see how I felt, as a follow-up 'thing'.

I was born in a communist country and had some sad experiences as a child, teen, young adult woman there. I'm in the US now. I've done lots of psychotherapy using different therapists and different methods. But EMDR helped me the most. Actually it's irrelevant how and why the method works. It does work. I wrote about it here a few times, I think.

I had fear issues, more like terror stuff in certain life situations, not often but they were very unpleasant to say the least. I'm able to function now, still have some issues but I'm much better. Thank God for it.

I honestly recommend EMDR.
Like Cactusflower, I still have some pain, higher levels sometimes, lower other times...but I'm fine with it. I'm happy, regardless of the body's pains. Yes, this is possible.
EMDR will help you to cope better, mentally. You'll be able to see yourself and the past experiences in a cold, rational, different light. At least for me it worked.

Take care.

 

First off, I don't know what 'pain reprocessing therapy' even is.

But for the meat of the Question, Sarno said that turning to the psychological and the act of investigation sends a message to the unconscious that we know what is is doing...and he compared it to;
"blowing the cover on a covert operation"
Once the message that we know WHERE the problem really is located sinks in, the unconscious knows it has been discovered and the symptoms cease

We are always sending messages TO our unconscious, but whether or not any ever escape? I would tend to agree with @scottjmurray. That is why I used the 'God's Butt' metaphor... It is impossible for me to see it or feel it in real time except for rare cases (Like 'Helen's story' in Mindbody Prescription) but afterwards, I can see the tracks it left and where changes happened...or didn't. What was going on when I needed a symptom.

The other metaphor I use is Indian Poker....everyone knows the card I am holding except for me. That's why outside help is necessary sometimes. Not for the pain...to understand what necessitated it. A frank outside observer can help us find out a lot

"Who you are screams so loud, I can't hear a word your saying"

and as Sarno said...might as well be angry about what color your hair is, or how tall you are. It's just the way we are wired. To Quote Henry Hill
"Everybody takes a beating sometimes"

The good news is that if you submit yourself to Sarno's work and the implied actions, it goes away. Period.

 

“but I'm fine with it. I'm happy, regardless of the body's pains. Yes, this is possible.”

@Sita explains this well.

Her pain is no longer a distraction. She’s learned what maker her internal systems tick and observes this but does not let it distract her from living a happy life. Honestly, what eventually lessens the concern about symptoms is no longer caring so much about them. They get boring!
It can take time.An example from last week:
I had a flare up because I was being perfectionistic and hard on myself in an attempt to control people liking me. Yeah, when you write it down, it all becomes so clear, doesn’t it! I had a job that was very important to me the next day. I called in, and asked for the folks I was working with to be prepared if I could not perform my duties, but also said I’d probably be Ok. That day I journaled, noted how all ty thoughts most certainly fed triggers and made me angry. Consciously decided to not try to control the uncontrollable, meditated for a while.

Next day: up and raring to go! Still had symptoms, work did not go smoothly: perfectly… I had an awesome time! I had no pain at work for 6 hours until, of course I thought: oh, bet I’m gonna feel this soon.. and there they were The pain is real, but the fixation is what fuels it.
It is a fairly simple process that seems complex only because our brains are searching for immediate relief as long as that relief falls within its constructs of safety. What you are doing is challenging those constructs because they no longer serve you. It really finds this new information mind blowing and unsafe.
Keep in repeat: Sarno’s words of temporary and benign. Try to keep your mind more focused on life and especially good parts as much as possible.
You will get there.

 

You always say something that haunts. Here’s what it is this time.

 

I understand what you are saying, and perhaps this might work for mild pains. However, the pains I am experiencing is so severe that sitting on a normal chair has the sensation of sitting on rocks on the buttocks. The pain has been so bad at times I ended up in tears from the agony. That is why it took me so long to accept the TMS diagnosis because I found it too hard to accept that my brain would do this to me. But .... it is ... there is no tissue damage, injury, cancers, tumors etc and I meet most of the criteria for TMS. I cannot simply "not care" about the symptoms. Indeed, it gets boring but it is there and never goes away. I have not been able to read a book, watch a movie or do anything relaxing in months because of this. The pains are so debilitating that I don;t think most people in my life understands just how bad it is.

 

Dr. Sarno did provide his patients with an explanation of where the repressed emotions could be found. You'll have to forgive me, sometimes I forget that people new to TMS theory don't have even a cursory understanding of the psychology.

Here are the sources that he suggests:

What I was stating earlier was that the higher brain levels are not able to make contact with the actual repressed emotions in most cases. If we needed to overhaul or change the personality in order to get better, we would have our work cut out for us. The personality is an outgrowth of traumas that are often very difficult to get near to.

I have about 16 years of relief from various psychogenic disorders thanks to Dr. Sarno's method. What really worked for me in the beginning was getting back to living again. I did some examination of my emotions during the first few months, but my understanding was very surface-level.