1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this link: http://go.tmswiki.org/newprogram
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New Program Day 2: The Nature of Pain

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by Alan Gordon LCSW, Jul 12, 2017.

  1. GShaw

    GShaw Peer Supporter

  2. GShaw

    GShaw Peer Supporter

    I agree with you, Ottawa is a beautiful place to live but living here all my life (50 plus years) except 6 months, I couldn't careless if I saw another winter.

    My hope and dream is to get my two home based businesses successful by next Fall, then consider the idea of spending next winter traveling. This is the real advantage to my two home based businesses.

    Time will tell if my dream opportunity happens in the Fall of 2019.
  3. GShaw

    GShaw Peer Supporter

    Hi ter,

    I hope if anything my response will provide you with some hope.

    Again, I am no expert but I am someone that used this program in October 2018 with amazing results. I am back using it again and starting to notice improvements again.

    To anyone new to this program I can completely understand why you might DOUBT it. I completely get it! I was exactly where you are now. When I first started I thought to myself, "someone is telling me that every time I go for a walk my causes of the pain is my mind", that is impossible. Logically at first it made the most sense to me because every step I took it was painful. I can understand the same for someone that might be in pain every time they sit or stand. The challenge we face makes complete sense that our actions is causing the pain.

    My advice in this case, keep an extremely open mind.

    I will say, based on what you've typed I will be shocked if this program doesn't produce amazing results for you. Do yourself a favour though, be patient and don't push yourself.

    When I work through this program I look at my life as a whole. I look back to my days as a child, a teenager and growing up as an adult. I do my best to remember the events of my past and how they might related to TMS. I have learned so much about myself! This program has been absolutely amazing for me.

    Some examples of what I have learned:

    I realize I don't have to share my personal life with people but I want others to realize I am real. I want to help give others hope by realizing how real I am and the challenges I am overcoming.

    This program has helped me understand how my childhood has affected me in regards to relationships. Why affection is so important to me in a relationship. Why I can get attached so easily in a relationship. What as I child I missed and how I have been looking for it all my life.


    As you will learn with this program, pain isn't something we avoid, instead it is something we embrace. We welcome the pain (or as I tell myself, the sensations) and at times we might even 'laugh' at them. By trying to avoid our pain we are sending a message to our brain that we FEAR pain.

    One thing I have noticed:

    I can't explain why but will tell you, both in October 2018 and this time around, I have found things started to improve around DAY 15. The fact you're on Day 8 please have hope because I am pretty confident this program will make changes in your life.

    Still today after my first success in October 2018 I find it hard to believe this programed changed my life as it did. It at times can still be very emotional for me. Why? I guess once you've had success you will really understand. To think back what I was going through, the opportunities I lost out on and what I am able to enjoy now, it makes life worth it that much more again.

    My first time around I never participated on the forums. This time I wanted to because while I am learning I want to help others. Helping others is important to me, hence my two online businesses.

    Good luck and feel free to drop me a message anytime.

  4. ter456

    ter456 New Member

  5. ter456

    ter456 New Member

    Greg...thank you for taking some much time to answer my post. I really appreciate it. I know that patience is really important and as you indicated I just have to let myself be and give myself time. And yes, the challenging part is not to look at pain as the enemy as it is trying to protect us --by switching on an erroneous danger signal (pain), our brain just doesn't know that it is mistaking our emotions & stress for a real danger. Maybe instead of looking so far ahead, I need to just be more in the moment instead of saying, "how will I ever be indifferent to the pain when it gets so bad. Maybe it will all just click into place, or I should say, "it will." I wasn't going on here much either (over the last 6 months or so that I've been doing TMS work), but I do need support and you are here this time to help others...which is very much needed! It is difficult to socialize because I never know how I am going to feel (I am sure many can relate to that). I go out for awhile every day with my husband (because I can let it all hang out with him:), but going out with others causes me anxiety..like, "what will I do if I am in so much pain and now I am stuck here until I can go home." I will just observe those fearful thoughts, but try not to let them get in my way. This weekend my husband is doing stand up comedy at a club and 2 of our neighbors (whom I like a lot) are going to support him and I am I going to go as well --to hell with what may or may not happen...I am just not going to think about that to the best of my ability and go anyway! Again, I really appreciate your comments --and yes, I reflect a lot on my past too but try not to dwell on them --highly dysfunctional & unhappy childhood, sexual & some physical abuse...moving 7 times in 5 years...just so much stuff...so I can understand why my brain must think I am in constant danger...very best, Teri
  6. GShaw

    GShaw Peer Supporter

    Hi Teri,

    You have the right attitude at the end of your post. I can relate completely to a lot of what you've typed. I love to dance! I have for many years. In the last 3 years I have done very little dancing. Why? My shin pain got so bad that I couldn't enjoy dancing. My girlfriend who suffers with back pain and has for many years due to 4 car accidents also loves to dance.

    I could kick myself now knowing that it wasn't my back causing all this back but more my mind. It is upsetting to think that I held my life up for something that wasn't anything to do with something physical. I guess it doesn't help when you have a doctor tell you, "your back is so bad you might need surgery one day". You can imagine what I might like to say to that doctor today!

    While I am no expert here, based on what I have learned so far, and I have been through this program, Alan's old program and now doing the 'Structural Program', if I am being honest with you, then I strongly believe you're issues are TMS related.

    Embrace the program and get excited because in a few weeks you'll be able to live life differently.

    I strongly believe, Pain can really change the personality of people.

    ter456 likes this.
  7. Looking for space

    Looking for space Peer Supporter

    I strongly believe, Pain can really change thepersonality of people.

    I STRONGLY agree.......
    GShaw and ter456 like this.
  8. ter456

    ter456 New Member

    Hi Greg: I can relate to everything you are saying! I had TMS pain in my first marriage (he was emotionally abusive) with pelvic pain and I actually went to see Dr. Sarno in NYC when I lived there. I started journaling, etc, but when I left him, the pain gradually went away --I removed my self from the situation (and honestly, I was potentially in danger because he tried to strangle me once) and my brain somehow knew that I was safe..so little by little I got better without doing much else. Then over the years, if I got a little flare up, I just didn't dwell on it...I just said, "it went away before, so it will go away again." I when I did that, the pain did not last long.
    I would try not to kick yourself or be hard on yourself all those years because you had no idea that TMS was behind your pain. And some of these doctors only make it worse. Oh, I definitely have TMS...took the MRI's and drove to LA to see Dr. Schechter (a TMS doc) and he diagnosed me with TMS. I have no doubt whatsoever that my pain IS NOT STRUCTURAL. So, my fear isn't about hurting myself in a structural way, but fear of being in a lot of pain...just the pain itself. All of us have had our lives held-up because of this TMS pain. I didn't even realize until less than a year ago, that my pain was probably TMS related --that's when I started reading the TMS books and made an appointment to see Dr. Shechter. But Alan's approach is so different in many ways (just read through day 9) and while others say to not think about your pain as much as possible, that seems to me to be the exact opposite of mindfully checking in without fear or judjment and without any motive...I know this can take time. I will embrace this program as you say and just let myself be and accept myself wherever I am at, at the same time trying to move forward with this program...I think we have to make room for both ---Rome wasn't built in a day! I thank you again for your support and feedback...best, Teri
    GShaw likes this.
  9. GShaw

    GShaw Peer Supporter

    Hi Teri,

    You're so welcome!

    You're absolutely right, based on what I have learned the idea isn't to try and ignore our pain, it is to embrace our pain. This is a very simple concept. The way I see it, if we try and avoid something you're sending a message of fear to your brain. This is most definitely the wrong message.

    I don't know why but both times doing this program I found it took me to Day 15 before I started to notice improvements. I can't explain to you what is so special about this day.

    Speaking about ignore, this is something I have had an issue with for most of my life. I can't stand it if I feel like I am being ignored. I have no clue whether this can fit in with TMS.

    This whole program is really begin to create new found thoughts for me.

    First thought:

    Here in Canada I am not sure if TMS is something people are aware of including in the health industry. I am started to wonder if there is any online courses available for anyone that might like to get into the profession.

    Second thought:

    I am currently going through Alan's program again plus I just finished his old program and I am also working on the Structural Program. The more I am learning, the more I am starting to wonder. Is it possible that those suffering with TMS could be at a greater risk of heart disease, cancer, digestive issues, gut issues .... and so on?

    If so, then working through this program could be that much more beneficial.
  10. ter456

    ter456 New Member

    Hi Greg: Yes, the idea of NOT ignoring it is so different than what others have said (however, it goes without saying that Sarno's original work was brilliant)...so I am trying to absorb this new information. I think you are not alone in having felt ignored for most of your life. I can certainly relate. I guess another way of saying it is the feeling of not feeling acknowledged. So, on the emotional end, I most definitely think that feeling fits in with TMS...not feeling acknowledged or feeling ignored can lead to so many feeling such as anger, hurt (I think hurt is the most important with anger sometimes covering up the hurt because we don't want to make ourselves feel so vulnerable). So, I don't like it either when I feel as if I am being ignored --it really triggers me! So, just like with so many emotions, our brains perceive us to be in a state of danger when we are feeling ignored, especially with those feelings that it can engender (e.g. the anger and hurt, etc.). So glad this program has helped you so much. I will continue to have hope! In terms of any courses available on-line, I am sure some of the TMS experts (maybe even Alan) can lead you in the right direction if something like that exists. Very best, Teri
    Erbear and GShaw like this.
  11. GShaw

    GShaw Peer Supporter


    Keep at the program .... I am sure you will have success.

    I can tell you I am on Day 20. Just like my first time using this program, the second is bringing me more success. I am also starting to work with the Structural Program.

    I am considering contacting Alan about any online courses. At the moment I have enough on my plate with these programs and my two at home businesses.

    Keep up the great work you're doing as you deserve success with this program.

    ter456 likes this.
  12. ter456

    ter456 New Member

    Thank you Greg...continued success with your journey too! I am not surprised the doing this program the second time around would be even more helpful. Some of us may not be able to do a full recovery (or close to it) in just 21 days...it took a very long time to build up these painful neural pathways, so it could take awhile to develop new ones without the pain...best, Teri
    Bodhigirl likes this.
  13. Erbear

    Erbear New Member

    This is so great! I am enjoying this during the Christmas season of 2019. What a gift!
    Bodhigirl likes this.
  14. GShaw

    GShaw Peer Supporter


    I haven't been on here in months but received a message about your post. I wanted to offer you a response because as you said, this truly is a GIFT.

    There aren't too many things in life for free and especially of this value. This is truly an amazing program.

    It has taught me a lot .... the challenge .... to follow through with what I

    Best of Luck with the program!
    Erbear likes this.
  15. Erbear

    Erbear New Member

    Thanks for the reply.
    GShaw likes this.
  16. G.J.

    G.J. New Member

    Hi Everybody,

    Just started with this program and very exited since I really believe that my pain symptoms are triggered by fear. I have a question that I hope you guys can help clarify:

    When I'm in acute danger and fear, I hardly have any inexplicable pain. For example; when I had acute appendicitis, a miscarriage, when I'm sick or when I was in the middle of a business conflict that was really threatening to my company, I hardly had any inexplicable pain. It seems that the inexplicable pain symptoms start after a stressful event and not during and that doesn't seem to fit Alan's and Sarno's theory.

    Is it also possible that the mind becomes addicted to fear and needs something to 'chew' on in order to feel some strange sense of control and thus safety? So when the outer threat is gone the brain creates pain to be able to obsess about something to feel safe in a strange way? Can this also be a form of the danger mechanism gone wrong?

    Looking forward to your thoughts. Thanks!
    Bodhigirl likes this.
  17. GShaw

    GShaw Peer Supporter

    Hi G.J.,

    Welcome to this amazing program!

    Let me see if I can help shed a bit of light for you. Based on everything I have read TMS is usually based on Chronic Pain. The definition of Chronic Pain is usually any type of pain that lasts beyond 3 months.

    Addicted to Fear - In my reading and research this is what I can share with you about "Fear".

    As like with a computer we would often have a "default browser" or in certain things we might have a "default mode" it is my understanding when we're born our minds are set on a "negative default". This is why it is so important we surround ourselves with positive people in our lives. The more negative we have in our life, the more likely it is that our mind will focus on negative.

    I will share a bit of my experience with the hope you're able to relate to your life.

    I am someone that loves to walk and dance. I suffered for many years with a very sore right shin. This progressively got worse a few years ago until in the Spring of 2016 I could barely stand let alone walk. I was aware I had different issues with my back. I had also been told my back was all screwed up and might need surgery one day. What I didn't realize until working with this program is the negative mental effect this was having on me which caused NOT my back to create pain, but my mind to create pain.

    I took this one step further and began to look deeper into my life. I started to realize how my negative thoughts had been controlling my life since way back to at least my twenties. My mind had me believing I wasn't good enough to do certain things or good enough for someone. This led me to many more discoveries about my life.

    So yes, as you've put it, it is extremely possible your mind has become "addicted to fear" and this could be due to many different reasons. Remember, our mind uses pain as a warning mechanism even though there might not be anything wrong. An example, started back in the Spring of 2016 when I would go out for a walk I struggled due to severe right shin pain. It wasn't until I started this program that I realized my "Fear" of pain was causing me pain every time I went for a walk. The idea of getting ready to go for a walk would trigger my unconscious mind and within minutes of walking the pain would develop.

    Since this program I now walk almost daily 3 to 5 hours with no pain. I am constantly catching my mind focusing on the negative. While I have learned so much about myself and pain, it isn't always as easy to put what you learn to use.

    I do hope what I shared you can use to help relate to your personal situations and life. The one bit of advice I will give to you, do not fear pain. Welcome it and enjoy it! The more we fear pain, the more it is likely to bother us.

    Good luck with this program and wish you nothing but success on your new adventure in life.
  18. Bodhigirl

    Bodhigirl Well known member

    Ok, I am back in this program again. Feel like I’m in relapse. Thought I could ace this past year without chronic pain and I keep backsliding. It’s my left shoulder. I got the idea from two women I know who both had frozen shoulder. Great idea. I have not been much of a symptom copy cat so this is a bit of a novelty.
    It started about eight weeks after my concussion of last June. Thrown off my horse.
    Tried some rehabbing of my neck. Thought I was fine.
    It’s worsened. I even saw an orthopedist. PT. When sent me back to the program here was the therapist saying my shoulder felt like it needed love.
    She’s right.
    I am being very driven about riding again, about reclaiming my confidence. I think the pain is yelling at me.
    I thought I was making all my emotions conscious, doing nothing to repress. But the ego was operating outside my purview.
    I’m more than humbled.
    I read all the things that have helped stop pain in the past. Have had some temporary relief but this is fierce!
    I am actually a little scared!
    So, I will do all of the days of this course, which Alan has clearly spiffed up since the early days.
    Nice work!!
    I even sent off an email to him asking for a session to see if he could help me unlock this for the cure.
    Why not? The pain center is right down the road from my house.
    Hold a good thought for me, please?
    There is nothing wrong with me. I was not broken by the concussion, I have forgiven my horse, I have maybe forgiven the man who spooked him. I haven’t fully accepted the trauma of it. Atop the trauma of the fire in Malibu before the fall... so I know it’s cumulative, this grief and rage.
    My life is truly lovely.
    I don’t need this pain.
    I release it. Here. Now. With our two pups sitting on me as I write!
    ...back to the The Divided Mind on Audible!
    Rainstorm B likes this.
  19. Bodhigirl

    Bodhigirl Well known member

    Wow, just read what you wrote and got heart palpitations! Yes, it is like an addiction.
    And yes, like addiction, a 12 step approach could be helpful. It’s all about acceptance instead of control.
    Nice. Heart settled back down!
  20. Lainey

    Lainey Well known member

    Nothing profound to say, but, have followed your posts for several years and want you to know I understand the frustration, fear, etc. You remind me of my own struggles with TMS. Keep the faith, let all the 'stuff'' go and know you can heal.

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