The Presence Process - Share Experiences & Ask Questions

Kalo,

Thanks for sharing!

You mentioned the Law of Attraction and healing regarding New Age. It's important to remember that in the Old Testament, the priests in Egypt performed two lesser miracles like Moses did: turning their staffs into snakes and water into blood, but on a smaller scale. So the enemy can do miracles, as well.

I'd like to share the testimony of an ex-Jesuit priest operative, Dr. Alberto Rivera. He was taken to a Jesuit boarding school at the age of 7 and his parents died not long after that, so the school owned him at that point. By age 17, he said he'd brought down 19 Protestant churches in Spain and he was so well trained at it, afterward, all the church members had no idea he'd been responsible. He even shares how the Jesuits orchestrate and execute these schemes. Several ex-Catholic priests back up Dr. Rivera's claims and testimony. The retired Pentagon employee's testimony supports Rivera's claims, as well.

I say all of this to give some credibility to the next statement I'll share from Rivera. You'll have to decide for yourself if you believe it's true or not. I believe Rivera, but regardless, I don't think there's a way to prove this next claim of his. I'll have to see if there are testimonies from people who saw this exact event.

Rivera tells about an artesian spring in France, I believe it is, that is know for its healing properties. Not just better health--these are actual miraculous healings, and people do attest to that. The Catholics built a cathedral nearby and put a statue of Mary next to the water. People go there and get healed and the Catholics claim Mary is the one doing it. Rivera said he watched as a man with no leg past the knee was placed in the water, and a new leg began growing until the man had a new shin and foot. Total regrowth of leg.

So we know the enemy can do at least small miracles, including physical healing. You know how charismatic and pentacostal churches do physical healings? Well, when you look into the roots of their movement, they started as a result of a likely Jesuit priest posing as a Christian who repackaged the Eastern Kudalini spirit to them, claiming it was the Holy Spirit. That's why they can speak in "tongues." The Pagan Roman guards of Jesus' time used to speak in tongues in their guard meetings. It's a Pagan thing. However, in Christianity, Christians who actually speak in the real gift of tongues only do it when speaking to someone who speaks another language that the Christian speaker doesn't know, and that person always gets saved as a result. Afterward, the Christian can't speak the language anymore. This is documented tons of times by missionaries, and it even happened to a friend of mine when I was a teenager. She spoke Spanish with a bum on the beach in Guatemala for about 30 minutes, and he got saved, and then she left and couldn't speak Spanish anymore. She'd never learned that language before.

Also, regarding the tongues spirit claiming to be the Holy Spirit, we've tested this multiple times and find that the spirit claims to be called "lord," which is a name of Ba'al, a Pagan god. It can fully possess a person, briefly, and it freaks the person out and they want it cast out. So the spirit is cast out and the person can no longer speak in tongues. Some tongues speakers are recorded and the tapes are sent to linguists. The linguists in one of the cases found that the language was an African tribal language only spoken by one remote tribe and that the person was cursing God and Jesus. And this was a Christian who thought the Holy Spirit was praising God through him. This fake Holy Spirit has the same symptoms as the Kundalini spirit.

On a quick sidenote, Rivera says that he read some disturbing things in the Vatican Archives while he was a Jesuit priest operative (operative is my word, not his--I use it because it fits and differentiates between a normal priest and an operative priest who's in the know about the Catholic Church's real history and current dealings worldwide). He read that in Nero's time, a little after Christ's death, Nero created fake underground Christian churches to draw in real Christians. Eventually, the fake Christians in the fake church would ask the real Christians who'd come to the church if they knew where any other underground Christian churches were. They'd reveal the location of one or two of them, and Nero would send troops to those churches and arrest and martyr its members. These churches were also designed to indoctrinate early Christians with Pagan doctrines mixed into the Christian teachings. Those fake churches are what eventually became the Catholic Church. That's why they have so many Pagan beliefs and practices. They took over Christianity in 313 A.D. I believe the Nestorian sect of Christianity that the Catholics deemed heretical carried on the true Christian message, which included Hell being temporary and for getting everyone in it to Heaven. That's probably why they dwarfed Catholicism during the Dark Ages.

So, as you can see, Catholicism is full-on evil. But only the higher-ups know about the true identity of the Catholic Church.

Regarding the Law of Attraction, this happened to me once. I so badly wanted God to show me that a particular girl was the one He wanted for me to marry. So I asked for Him to send me signs if she was the one for me. I received three very distinct signs after that, one of them being her father telling me that he'd been really hoping for God to bring a guy like me to his daughter. They loved me and his daughter really liked me. It all fell apart shortly after that, and they were in a Charismatic church and spoke in tongues. I, too, was in their church, at that time. That's why I got those signs I wanted--Law of Attraction. But I didn't realize that's the law I was accessing accidentally. And I know God didn't want me to marry her because it didn't happen. And now that I know what I know about her, I can tell it would've been awful being married to her. If God really wanted me to marry her, He would've made sure it happened. So it was the enemy who gave me those false signs. Looking back on it a few years later, I saw that more clearly.

The reason many people get healed in New Age is because some of their practices access the subconscious and then they end up programming either a false belief into it or a truth I to it, both of which cause the release of shame and certain repressed emotions. This gives the person an immediate confirmation that New Age must be the one true religion. It's an ingenius way to ensnare people. But all its doing is using simple principles of psychology that heal a person's health.

The way this works is simple: there are certain beliefs we pick up as children that are incorrect. Because of that, the beliefs generate negatice emotions. Those negative emotions get stuck in the body, causing health issues. It's like the subconscious is punishing itself physically. So when New Age gets a person to meditate to bring their self down into a hypnotic state, that unlocks the subconscious, and they then program in the belief that anything they do is okay, and it's all allowed. This drops a lot of shame for the person, at least to a degree. They feel very free, at that point, and they believe it's all due to New Age. They believe New Age is responsible for relieving their stress (the weight from) all of that shame, so they have a very strong positive association with it.

In Pentacostal and Charismatic circles, when people speak in tongues sometimes, they feel neary orgasmic. That's addicts the person to the experience. Also, they don't remember what they said in tongues either, so it was a possession. Now compare that to what the Bible says about tongues. Paul says don't speak in tongues unless you're first given the translation (in your head and/or heart) of what you're about to say. These people don't know what they're saying. They just blurt it out, and then someone else gives the supposed translation of what was said. This happened to a friend of mine at that church I mentioned above while he was sitting beside me. He said it felt amazing. I think it happened to him because he was raised in a home with a father who was a Freemason and therefore Satanic, and so my friend became a Satanist at one point, too, before he got saved. And nothing says you can't be possessed after you're saved. I've seen it happen to a lot of people.

Hopefully, that gives you a pretty good idea of how that sort of healing works. Oh, I forgot one thing. The Pentagon employee whose job it was to track Jesuit operatives said he overheard two of them in the 80s, I think it was, saying that they (the Jesuits) owned every TV preacher on the air at the time. That means that each preacher on air was either being blackmailed by the Jesuits and had been set up by them or was an actual Jesuit operative. The Jesuits would later go on to leak the secret affairs with the media that the Jesuits had used t entrap and blackmail the preachers. This was to deface Protestantism. I believe Benny Hinn was a Jesuit operative, but I forget if Rivera said he was for sure or not. I know Jim Jones was. He's the guy that got all of his followers to drink the koolaide to kill themselves.

Back to healing. The subconscious sompu has to be accessed and reprogrammed to heal the body because the subconscious is he cause of the health problem. It's that simple. However, in your case, it's particularly hard to heal from child abuse, especially if it was Satanic ritual abuse. Was your mom in a cult of some sort?

I say it's particularly hard for you to heal, but actually, I should rephrase that. It can be faster for you to heal than a regular person because of methods we can use with multiples (assuming you are multiple), but if you don't use one of the two methods I know of, it will likely be very difficult, if not impossible, for you to heal.

Do you plan on answering my questions I asked in my last message to you? You're welcome to ask them in a private message. And I would worry about apologizing for expressing your beliefs. If you offend someone here, that's their problem, not yours. You're just being honest about your beliefs. They're the ones who have to choose to be offended or not, and that has nothing to do with you. No worries.

 

Hi Brian,

I am speechless about the long post and informative writing you do. Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

I believe in being truthful...Here goes and please don't think I am being disrespectful. To anyone who believes in a bible if I offend anyone it is not my intension.

Brian, first off I am dyslexic so its hard for me to express myself in written words, but, I will try to do my best.

While I really admire your faith in the bible and that you are saved...Well you sure have a lot of knowledge about the bible and stories of Jesuit priest and catholic corruption.

Here is the shocker....I do believe in God, but, I do not believe the bible is the accurate word of God. If I were to talk to you in person, I could express why I don't....Did Jesus exist, I don't know if he did. Do I believe in the word of being "saved", no, I don't....

When you talk about the enemy are we talking the "devil"? I don't believe one exist and it doesn't make sense to me that God would let his children suffer the wrath of being mislead by a devil. What does that say about God?

That being said, I do believe evil and corruption exist, how and why? Well I have my theories but it's not the devil or what you call the enemy....Whatever the enemy is?

When reading the four Gospels, well each one has a different account of who Jesus was? Which Jesus do you believe in? Mathew, Mark, Luke, or John? What about Apostle Paul? Some believe it is he that was the founder of Christianity...I am sure you will correct me that I am wrong on this too...

That being said, whether I will "heal" from my TMS Jaw joint dysfunction and other things that are happening in my life, I don't know. It all came on with loosing my Mom, job, and now being one my own with no family...

Well, I am totally screwed then that the subconscious is making me sick. I don't know how to access healing and maybe it is my lack of faith in a bible and being saved. To answer your question, my Parent's were never in any occults unless you count the Orthodox Church, LOL...I was never abused as a child of any type of Satanic Ritual...

Thank you though for your replies, but, I think it is best if I bow out now as I do not want this post turning into a bible/saved type forum. I totally admire your beliefs and I am happy that you are healthy and can help some on this forum.

Thanks again, Kalo

 

Hey, that's cool. To each his own. I'm not trying to convert anyone to my beliefs. That's not my job. The Bible says that's God's job. It just tells me to love others with God's love. I'm just sharing information, that's all. What people do with it is up to them.

I don't think there's a single devil. The Ancient Hebrews believed there was a being in God's Council who was the accuser, like an anonymous attorney, and his job is to prosecute/accuse. That's "the Satan" in the Bible. Then there's just "satan," which can referring to a man or a spirit bring or one other thing, but I forget what it is. None of these are "the devil" that everyone believed in, though. They're just part of the system of things. Christians and their Westernized way of viewing things later turned it into a single "Satan," but it's unclear if they're saying a single spirit being of referring to all of them. The term means "the adversary," which typically refers to all demons or other neferious spirit beings.

So, in a way, I agree with you that there probably isn't a single individual named Satan.

You said why would God let his children be mislead by the devil? He didn't "let" anything happen to us, we chose to come here, knowing that we would be deceived. But most people won't understsbd why without some more context.

Lets say we're in Heaven and we're Madd in God's image, just like Him, but we don't have His entire well of power. We're perfect, meaning we don't sin, and we feel amazing all the time. We have all we need, all the time. We are incredibly-loving beings. So, if we have all of that, how can we mature and truly understand others more deeply? How can we deepen our relationships with them? How can we grow our hearts?

If there's one thing I've learned in life, it's that I don't learn much in comfort and plenty. I learn a ton, though, when I do stupid, unloving things to others or when I get hurt by others or get pulled into difficult situations. Those are the most valuable parts of my life--the most painful ones. They teach me sooooo much, and they help me relate to others who've experienced similar things, giving me a deeper connection with those people.

Fir example, from ages 11 to 16, I lied about my past so my friends would like me more. The weight crushed me. And that depressed me. And I accidentally got saved as a result of it. LOL It completely changed me in a split second. I went from being a depressed liar and a cheat to a very honest, genuine guy who really loves others instead of being do wrapped up in myself like before. I was headed down a dark path. The pain and shame I was carrying helped me a ton. After I got saved from it, I felt amazing and learned a whole lot.

Now that I have that experience, a liar would trust that I may know how to help him out if his compulsive lying habit as opposed to someone who was never much of a liar because I can relate. He knows I understand him and it gives me compassion for him. We instantly have a deeper relationship right off the bat.

I tried to commit suicide several years later once I lost my joy and did some stupid things. But I survived and vowed never to do it again and to clean up my act. And that's what I did. Now, a person who's tried to commit suicide trusts that I understand them better than other people would, and they feel that since I overcame it, I might be able to tell them how to, as well. They know I understand what they're going through, at least to some degree.

I've done lots of stupid things in my life and hurt people. I wouldn't go back and get rid of those things from my life because they taught me so much. I did my best to apologize and make things right with everyone I ever hurt. I do my best to have strong relationships with my friends and family. And I ask God to put me through more tough, painful stuff so I can learn more because I learn almost nothing in comfort. We're here to learn and I enjoy learning, even though it's really hard at times. It grows my heart and matures it. Maturity comes from experience. We're born with zero life experience so we're immature. As we have more experiences, we mature gradually. As kids, we're supposed to be immature. As adults, we still have parts of our hearts that are immature, though, so we work to mature them with unconditional love.

When we get back to Heaven, we will have learned so much and we will have all kinds of experiences that will deepen our relationships with others and have grown our hearts and their capacity to love even more than before, because we will understand others more deeply. Hope that makes sense. That's why we're here, not some moral test. That's why God purposely had us fall in the Garden. He even takes responsibility for it and fixes it by coming and being tortured and killed to "save" us. But most people don't truly understand what that all means.

Jesus (God) died for us to show us that He (God) never held anything against us, so we can stop holding things against ourselves. That's one major thing He did. The word for-give, in my opinion, is a misunderstood word. To give ahead of time. To for-give. In other words, it means you never judge and therefore cannot hold anything against anyone ekse. That's real love. The Ancient Hebrews didn't even believe in right and wrong. They had no concept if it. I don't want to go into that though. But that's what non-judgmental will do for us. And in Near-Death Experiences (NDEs), people akways discover that God wasn't judging them, it was them judging theirselves that made them feel do bad. He akways tells them there is no good or bad, no right or wrong, just lessons they were learning. He removes all shame. That's what the New Testament says Jesus does for us. When He removed my shame when I suddenly became saved, it felt awesome. I went from rock bottom to cloud nine in a split second and stayed there for a good two years. It took that long for my old subconscious patterns to pile shame back on me which stole my joy away again and put me back into a coping cycle again.

So that's why we come here and are subject to the enemy. We choose it so we can learn and grow and so we can be part of helping others learn and grow. It's like we're actors playing in a movie God wrote, but we forgot we're actors and that this is a movie and that God's directing. We're just here to learn and help others. In my opinion, when people hurt me in some way, they're helping me learn, and that's great! When I hurt other people, it helps them in the same way, but that doesn't mean I should try to hurt people. LOL It means that when I hurt someone, I realize the truth...that the situation is going to help me and the other person grow and learn, but I need to go apologize and ask then if there's anything I can do to make it right with them. And that helps me catch myself in the future before I hurt someone I'm upset with or if I'm about to hurt someone unintentionally. It's pretty rare that I hurt people, but at least I have a system for overcoming it so it happens less and less, or never again, because I learn from it. I don't need the concept of right and wrong, I just need a heart and to guide by unconditional love. It treats people way better than a system of morality.

Sorry for the long explanation. Hope that made sense.

The gospels all show Jesus for who He is. He's not different in them. The Hebrews didn't necessarily write in chronological order either. They just recounted things Jesus did and said, several years after they happened. And it just so happened that the account agreed on just about everything, besides a few minor details.

A detective once said that if he interviews witnesses to a crime and their stories are all exactly the same, he gets very suspicious because it's normal for each person to have their own perspective on an event that happened, and for them to get little details incorrect every once in a while. He said that with the Gospels, they're very similar and recount some of the same events slightly differently in unimportant ways, but they all still carry the same important message, and the big events are always the same. He said that's way more believable than if they all perfectly matched one another. He said that's not possible after decades have passed from the events to the writing down of events.

Did you know that we have more evidence that Jesus lived than we do that Abraham Lincoln lived? We have eyewitness accounts of Jesus and several non-Christian sources who wrote about Him shortly after His death. They write about Him, His crucifixion, and His empty tomb. In fact, the evidence is so overwhelming that almost every single scholar, whether Atheist, Christian, or non-Christian, agrees that Jesus definitely lived, He was definitely crucified, and His tomb was definitely empty. They also agree that it makes absolutely no sense that His disciples would've taken His body out of the tomb as a hoax and then immediately started a false religion, because it meant they'd all be run out of their homeland and their own people would want them dead. They all knew they'd lose their families and country and probably their lives eventually. They had nothing to gain. Paul had everything back then. He was taught by the most revered Pharisetical rabbi of his day, Gamaliel, and was a highly respected Jew with a lot of power. And yet he threw it all away because Jesus appeared to him. There's no logical reason for him to create a fake religion which he knew would cost him everything. He went without food for long periods of time, was in prisons for long periods of time, and was beaten up at times, as well. He knew that was his fate if he followed Jesus, but he did it anyway. Makes no sense to do that for a fake religion. All of the evidence points toward it all being true. And nearly all scholars, including secular scholars, say that the evidence best supports Jesus being resurrected, but not all of them believe He was resurrected just because it's the best explanation. That's saying something. It's amazing that the evidence is that overwhelming. But hey, I'm just sharing what I know. I'm not trying to convert anyone. You can consider the info or toss it if you like. Doesn't matter to me. That's your business, not mine. Like I said, to each his own. I have no place to tell people what to believe. What if I'm wrong? That means I taught people false truths! That would suck. Best to let people decide their beliefs on their own.

Well, that's good to hear that you've never been abused. I really couldn't tell you where the PTSD-like symptoms come from. Repressed memories could be where it's at, but who knows. You never answered my diagnostic questions but I figure that's because the answers were no. Maybe the sense I got about mentioning Biblical stuff was a stupid sense. LOL If so, I apologize. I won't go that direction again unless you ask me to, and even then, I'll be hesitant.

Like I said, I'm not trying to save anyone. I just had this weird feeling that I should mention a few things that had to do with God for some reason. And actually, I was about to suggest we stop talking about that subject because that wasn't my intention. I was just going to see if there was anything I could maybe help you sort through, and share some methods for healing whatever trauma you may have endured early on. Sometimes, it can be as simple as parents who are really heavy handed with spankings and punishments. Scares the crap out of the kid causing PTSD-like symptoms.

Oh, The Presence Process (TPP) has nothing to do with religion or Christianity, actually, and so your healing has nothing to do with your not being saved. People can heal from just about anything without being saved. If I gave you a different impression, I apologize. That wasn't my intention. TPP is about getting into the present moment, letting the repressed emotions from the part surface during and/or after the daily breathing exercise, and then loving those emotions unconditionally until they integrate. Figuratively speaking, it would be like a hard heart becoming soft and functional again, one piece at a time. You learn to feel your feelings again, and you end up enjoying them, even the painful ones! It's really awesome. It's the second best thing that ever happened to me.

Often, the reason a person can't get their TMS to heal is because they can't effectively get their repressed emotions to surface and they can't get their subconscious to unlock so changes can be made. TTP is one of the most effective methods for getting the emotions to surface and getting the subconscious to start taking in new beliefs to replace old, harmful ones. Nothing worked for me except TPP. And then I developed another method to bring the emotions to the surface that even TPP was having a hard time triggering and dealing with.

If you have more questions, let me know. And I encourage doing TPP. Hope I didn't deter you. Totally my fault. I should've known better and should've asked first. Guess I'm having a weird couple of days.

 

Hi Brian,

I will Private Message you. I found what you wrote very interesting...I hope you get your notification when I am done..

Thanks,
Kalo

 

Hi Brian,

Sorry for the late answer back, but didn't feel being emotional well for a couple of days. anyway here i go.

we will see God as we saw our father during the first 8 or so years of our life

I've always seen God different then the church i had to attend to. I always felt that god was more loving then the said about him. Felt that what they were saying was wrong. Don't why but just felt that.

In my opinion, we were in Heaven before we came here. We chose to come here and even chose which life we would go into here

I know my dad was in a concentration camp later on in life and always pictured them as having those white and black striped clothes on. So one day i had a vision, like a movie was playing in front of me, that i was floating above a camp like environment and i was seeing it from outside just floating above and in front of a fence with barb wire. Then i saw a boy walking with a brown suite jacket and shorts on. Then i heard myself saying, that will be my father and then the vision disappeared. I told my dad later about this vision and he told me that the clothes i saw him in were indeed the clothes he was wearing there. Does it prove that reincarnation exists, don't know. I only had that vision.

I don't feel the traditional view on reincarnation is right as well . I feel it's more complicated then that and it's more geared towards evolving our soul and not so much on coming back because of karma. Feel we are here to experience a multitude of situations, experiencing emotions so we can become more aware of what we really are. If you only live in the light, you don't know what light really really is till you experienced its opposite darkness.

Regarding new age, you could be right, i've read similar stories about it being created by cia etc. Therefore i stick more to people who had awakening experiences who weren't involved in any spiritual activity or religion which makes it more authentic.

You definitely have all the signs of abuse. Are you male or female? I'm assuming female but I want to be sure.

I'm male and yes according to my counselor and others that diagnosed me i have all those signs although i have no memories, besides flashbacks and nightmares that point to that. I have to mention as well that for a period ot time i experienced sleep paralysis in which i experienced the classical old hag. That was really terrifying because you're powerless because you can't move at all.

It sounds like your mother was part of a group of Satanists who abused you judging from what you said. Your father was probably over-protective because he was trying to save you from her.

No she wasn't involved in a cult, at least not that i'm aware off. Maybe you misinterpreted my dreams because i mentioned she was in my dreams. In my dreams in which i experienced abuse and betrayal she was present not as one that did the betrayal or abuse, but as a anchoring presence in which she was there helping me to cope or guide me through those feelings. Yes my father was overprotective, not because of my mother but more because of his own traumatic past.

I have had those flashbacks of being involved in rituals and have had experience with people trying to abduct me and had fears of being pulled into a car. Are the emotions from this life and i suppressed the memories, or other life times or are it emotional signatures? I really don't know. Only whats coming up are the nightmares, flashbacks and the emotions that are trying to surface. Like the PP says i actually don't need to remember the actual events, more the emotions involved. That's were i'm working on with my counselor together with PP, to increase my capacity to feel.


You likely have a lot of repressed memories that are difficult to bear. Do you have large gaps of missing time in your childhood?
Yes i have now memories whatsoever of the cause of my emotional pain and the first 5 years of my life is totally blank.


Do you lose time? (for example, are there times where it's daytime and you're in the living room, and then a split second later, you're in a different room and a few hours have gone by?
Yes i had several instances of that, especially when i was young. For instance i was on my bicycle and wanted to go somewhere and ended up being somewhere totally else, think the time involved good have been more then 10 minutes and didn't have any recollection how i got there and no memories of what happened during that missing time .

Always wondered how i could have arrived that without any accidents and felt scared after cause what happened during the missing time?

Do you hear voices in your head they are not controlled by you (like someone else in your head)? Don't worry--that's totally normal for multiples and it doesn't mean you're crazy.
Not so much voices, but more like there is a sense of conversations going on inside me that i can't grasp on, like its under the surface, you can somehow sense it but don't know whats being said.


And regarding Bible and new age etc. If its all manipulated, true, half true etc, we just cant know all that stuff for certain and it keeps us occupied in our heads. I try to stick with what people actually experienced. Like people with awakening experiences, out of body travel, near death experiences. all of that can be manipulated as well. Maybe we all need some believes to hang on to, maybe the mental body is just to afraid to go without it believes because we can't yet experience the naked reality as it is. Maybe the PP is a good start to get out of our mental space.

By the way, i try to quote with the quote tags but it doesn't show up like that, just normal text.

 

Morreion, thanks for the reply! I'll read and respond when I get a chance. Have some errands to run today.

Also, if you use brackets like [ that one around the word QUOTE, it will start the quote. Then use [ and a / and then QUOTE and another ] and it will end the quote. Those should all be together with no spaces. I'd show you but it wouldn't show up on here since it's a command. [ Q U O T E ] Maybe that will show up with the spaces. [ / Q U O T E ] closes off the quote.

Hope that helps!

 

I did that, used the question mark sign in the edit menu, shows the quote tags in my text but when posted it doesn't show the quote

 

Weird. I've never seen that before.

 

I agree. Churches don't realize how damaging eternal Hell doctrine or even Annihilationism is to God's character. And too many people are too scared to explore it for fear of being banished by their Christian friends or their church. I lost a couple of Christian friends when I figured out Hell wasn't eternal and especially when I could prove it (well, prove it according to the Bible, I mean, not actual physical proof lol). Sounds like you have good intuition.

But I was talking about something different when I said that we will see God as we saw our father during the first 8 or so years of our life. I should've been more clear. Our subconscious (otherwise known as our heart) will see God as we saw our father back then. Consciously, though, we will probably see God differently. However, sometimes, our subconscious effectively gets its full view of our father to the surface but applied to God instead of our dad. And that can cause some major problems. Luckily, even though my dad had his issues, I always knew he and my mom loved me no matter what. And I've found that I've always felt God loves me, too, and I've never been upset with him. However, my subconscious has some parts of it who were very angry with my father and very angry with God, too, thinking He was like my dad. Some still are angry. I'm actually working on some parts of my subconscious currently who have issues like that. Takes time.

What I find interesting is that our mind is in our head and we seem to steer using it and our POV seems to be from there since our eyes are in our head. But what we see in Near-Death Experiences (NDEs) is that the mind ceases to exist and our thoughts and our POV is from our chest area, from our heart, instead. And it's much, much smarter and more powerful in its abilities. Also, our sense of time goes away with the departure of the mind. We end up feeling eternity instead. It's truly bizarre from the sound of it. The Ancient Hebrews would say heart in order to express the mind, and they'd say kidneys in order to express the heart, oddly enough. So that verse that says "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?", it's actually talking about the mind, not the heart. Translators in America are about 50 years behind the translation work coming out of Israel, and our translations really show that.

I'm not sure how your vision has to do with reincarnation, but maybe I just misunderstood what you were saying.

I don't know that we don't know what light really is until we experience it's opposite, but I do believe we're here to grow our hearts through difficult experiences that we can't experience in a perfect Heaven where all is provided for us and we are all perfect. That sounds somewhat similar to what you're saying.

I tend to trust that God will show me the truth so I don't tend to bother with any teachers in New Age or even Christianity for that matter. However, I do listen to scholars' information and take the useful parts into consideration. I'm not assuming they're correct, of course, because many are wrong in certain areas of their beliefs. Some are shortsighted in their logic that brings them to their beliefs, too. But some of the information they provide has nothing to do with their beliefs because they're just facts that are useful for helping a person determine what they believe or because they paint a better picture of the past or the scriptures.

I used to experience sleep paralysis periodically, too. I couldn't breathe when it happened, and I couldn't move to snap myself out of it, which means if I stayed like that, I would suffocate eventually. I even read a story about someone who suffocated due to sleep paralysis. That's pretty crazy. The way used to get out of it is by forcing my body to make small little movements at first, rocking back and forth to build momentum, and then I'd throw myself in one of those directions to force myself awake. And I really had to force the movement to get to the point where I could get myself to move far enough to wake up. I would've suffocated had I not done that. If it was just that I couldn't move, that wouldn't have been a big deal. The impending suffocation is what used to cause the fear.

I eventually figure out that they were caused by repressed fear. I processed most of the fear while doing TPP, so most of the sleep paralysis went away. I processed more of the fear later. At this point, it's been quite a while since I've had sleep paralysis, so it may have finally processed its way out of my system. I've never heard of the term The Old Hag. I looked it up just now and I guess I understand what they're saying, mainly from other people whom I've spoken with who had sleep paralysis. I sensed the dark presence, so I understand. While I said it has to do with repressed fear, it's important to note that when I was working with multiples and they would have a panic attack, I could say a command like the following one and the panic attack would immediately stop and they'd regain control. The command was something like this or a nuance of it: "In the name of Jesus Christ who is come in the flesh, evil spirit call Fear, you are commanded out of this person at once and into the Abyss, never to return." I couldn't believe how well it worked. But the thing I was pointing out by sharing that command is that I called the spirit by the name "Fear" and it obeyed the command, meaning it was likely the source causing the fear within the person. That's not to say a person can't fear on their own, of course. But I've found that these evil spirits tend to amplify negative emotions for certain control reasons. The rules of the spirit realm are quite strange.

Yeah, I can't really say what those flashbacks are all about. I've never once seen someone having flashbacks of a past life that traumatizes them. That's bizarre, which is why I tend to believe you really were abused at a very young age and the memories are all repressed/blocked, and only come out in flashbacks or dreams. That's fairly standard for a person with multiple personality disorder or even other conditions resulting from past abuse. But hey, I really can't say one way or the other without asking some specific diagnostic questions.

Well, it's hard to say judging just from your answer there because it's pretty typical that people don't remember anything before age 5. Abuse victims, when their early memories return, can see those memories vividly like flashbacks. So for an abuse victim (or at least for an abuse victim who split to become multiple), they would say the opposite--that they remember some things vividly from before age 5. But up to a certain point, they, too, didn't remember anything before age 5. Just depends on the person, though, and what happened to them.

That's one of the major markers of someone with multiple personality disorder (dissociative identity disorder), virtually all of whom are abuse victims. Doesn't mean for certain that someone's multiple, but it's a very strong indicator. The reason time is lost is because an alternate personality (alter for short) took control of the body and you blanked out. 10 minutes later when the alter left control of the body, you came back into control of it as if no time had passed at all. The alter was in control up to that point. It's more likely to happen when you're younger, but often around the age of 30, multiples who don't know they're multiple start losing time and seeing some repressed memories and then find out they're multiple. The age it happens at isn't important, but 30 seems to be the most common age for this to occur.

Multiples often hear conversations going on in their head and they have no control over it because it's their alternate personalities inside having the conversations. With what you described, it's hard to say if that's what it is, but it's possible that's what it is. If it's what multiples experience, then I'd imagine you'll start to eventually see it getting more definite and more clear conversations, but who knows. Just depends.

Well, the Bible's translations are manipulated, yes, but we can counteract that by just learning a few things about Ancient Hebrew word meanings and some Greek word meanings, as well, and some sayings and cultural things. You'd be surprised how much of the translation issues can be overcome by just learning a few simple things. The Bible's manuscript copies are fine as they are in their earliest form. And it's easy to test that by reading the quotes of the Church Fathers from the Bible. They have the complete Bible in their writings hundreds of times over, meaning you could construct a complete Bible from their writings...hundreds of times over, if I understand scholars correctly. That's pretty cool. Serves as a great way to check manuscripts for changes/manipulations. And the most important thing is that the message in the Bible hasn't really been hindered too much by translation issues except regarding Hell. It's a major message that's been covered up by our translations and doctrines for a long time.

Thanks for answering the questions. I didn't see an answer to whether you have ever found yourself in a place that you know isn't Earth, exactly, but seems to be a place inside your heart in a spirit realm and seems just as real as this physical world. I hope that read okay. It was a bit of a long sentence with some abstract concepts.

Do you have the ability to ask your parents what happened to you before age 5? That would help you figure out a little more about where this trauma came from.

 

I can't really say what happened to me and like you said its normal not to remember a lot before the age of 5. I gave up on finding out what happened to me, keeps me in my head instead of feeling whats arising now. That's why i feel the presence process is so valuable because i don't have to remember it mentally, the memories present themselves as emotions and feelings. I experience that now i stop reacting most of the time to triggering situations the painful emotions come up even more. Am starting to see the presence i sending messengers, in my case mainly my ex wife and family and my daughter living with me.

If i see a vision that i see my father walking inside a concentration camp when i wasn't born yet and saying that will be my father, that could be an indication of the existence of having multiple lives.

That's why i value the experiences with awakening experiences like Eckhart Tolle etc because they describe an state of being beyond the mind besides the NDE experiences. A good resource for that is https://batgap.com/ (Buddha at the Gas Pump | Interviews with "Ordinary" Spiritually Awakening People)

In my sleep paralysis experience it was an old woman, she came walking to me bu only saw her wrinkled old hand touching my hand. I only had those experiences for a couple of times and then it stopped. Indeed very frightening, i tried to scream, desperately to move but couldn't but eventually i woke up.

Have to say that always had nightmares of having daemons chasing me trying to hurt me in my dreams. Wasn't not that long ago, was already busy with the PP that i had such a dream again. I was able to stay my ground with the daemon and not run (maybe because i practicing being present with my emotions), looked into the daemons eyes and then i felt the fear. But then when feeling the full fear the daemon changed into an angel and looked full of love to me.

Don't know either if its this life, past lives or other causes. Maybe the when is not so important, more that what is coming up now through the emotions. Tried to find that out through most of my life, am 52 now, and am tired of it. For me the PP gives me exactly what i need right now, dealing with the traumatic feelings without having to actually remember it or trying to figure out what the cause of it is. I've given up on that.

Not sure about that but they have discarded other books from the bible. You have the nag hammadi scrolls, book of thomas, maria magdalenea etc. Maybe they were not convenient for the then rulers. Can't have people not needing authority to find the way to heaven within or without.


Anyway i've been trying to stay with my emotions but am experiencing a wall that i can't seem to get through. Am experiencing a lot of feelings dealing with betrayal. Although i smoke cigarettes sometimes to take the sharp edges off, i try not to. But anyway i try to feel as much as i can and because of that my back starts to really stiffen up and is so painful that i can't walk anymore. Since i have a daughter to look after i have to do something to be able to walk, so i took more cigarettes and a muscle relaxer. I know according to the PP i have to be also with that pain, i tried but if the pain persists and have to get out for my daughter i can't just keep laying in bed and being with the pain.

Any ideas?

 

By the way i solved the quoting issue, have to highlight the text and then the reply word appears and have to click that. Using the question mark in the edit menu won't work.

 

Oh, good!

Oh, forgot to mention the other day that I don't think we need to experience darkness to truly understand what we are (light), because it's easy to understand what I am as a human, regardless of living some life that's the opposite of a human. I can understand things I am really well, regardless of opposites.

And what does it matter if I do or don't understand what I am? How does that help me and others?

However, I believe you're correct about us coming to develop our souls, mature them, deepen their understanding through experience...because those things grow our love and depend our relationships with others. That's a worthy pursuit. Knowing what I am doesn't seem useful or helpful in any way. But if you're saying that developing your soul is causing you to know better what you are, then you're right, because we're God's children, made to be like Him, and the more we develop our love, the more we're like Him, like our true self, because God is Love. I just hadn't equated the two before. That's a good way of looking at it.

Regarding New Age, I know for certain who developed it. It's pretty well documented. They're some very evil people. When you line up New Age goals and beliefs with Nazism, you find that they're identical. And we have plenty of documentation now to show that the Federal Reserve banking families created Nazism, Communist Russia (not to be confuse with Russian before it was Communist), and Marxism...and the Jesuits intermarried with the Federal Reserve banking families long ago so they coould control the world's money.

Again, this is all very well documented so there's no mystery about it. Interesting subject to study, though, just to see where it all came from.

I'll respond to your recent post as soon as I get a chance today.

 

Not necessarily. With past lives, usually, the person remembers the life from the perspective of the person the were before, and there are emotions with the flashback. But visions of past events before you were born is simply a vision and that's part of many cultures, including Islam and Ancient Hebrew culture and Ancient Christian culture, etc.

Were you seeing your father from a person's perspective, as if you were them? Were there emotions involved from that person's perspective as opposed to just your perspective? Did the experience feel completely real as opposed to just seeing a vision thats detached? Answering those would give a better indication of what the experience was.

 

Oh, I see what you're saying now. Yeah, I enjoy those, too. I'll check those out later.

 

I found that in scary dreams, I started standing my ground too once I started doing TPP.

I hear ya. I was relieved not to have to figure things out anymore with TPP, as well. After I'd done TPP 5 times in a row, I eventually found that I'd cleared quite a bit of issues but I had quite a bit more to go and TPP couldn't fix those for me. My subconscious doesn't just take on beliefs without proof that those beliefs are legitimate, and it needs its own beliefs disproved, as well. So the programming style of TPP didn't work for me. It only slightly worked. I had to develop my own surgical method of pinpointing specific beliefs in the subconscious and bringing them to the surface and dealing with them. And what's crazy is that I found that the human heart is shattered into tons of different parts. I later found that psychologists have found the same thing. So I utilized what I learned working with multiples, which is to work with the primary presenters (the alternate personalities from whom most of the other personalities split. So it's kind of like a multi-level marketing pyramid graph. I work with the guys at the top of the graph (the alternate personalities, also called "alters"), except I'm not multiple, so I don't switch into those alters and blank out. Those parts of my heart just get triggered and push their beliefs and emotions on me to drive my behaviors. That's how the heart works normally. So I just bring them to the surface and work with them one on one. When one of them changes their beliefs and releases emotional issues, all of the alters below them do the same thing, for the most part. There are lots of primary presenters though, and it can take a while, but that's the fastest way I've found.

That's just my way. Not everyone needs that. Some people's subconscious will take in the programming of TPP and work its way out to healing. I'm glad it wasn't that easy for me, though. I want to know the inner workings and overcome the issues so I can show others how to do it. But sometimes, I wish it were as easy as it is for some others. lol

 

That's actually not true. That's the internet version spread by New Age and Atheists originally, and it seems to have caught on with a number of people.

We have a few different ways of knowing exactly what books were originally in the Bible. And we have a few ways of knowing that all of the books you just mentioned, and the other false Gospels, are pseudopigrapha (meaning someone wrote them much later and tried to pawn them off as one of the earlier writings by someone in Jesus' time). The way we know is due to the evolution of the language. We see new words develop over time in languages and we see certain sayings emerge and certain writing styles, etc. Virtually all of the books that people claim were supposed to be in the Bible were written much later by the Gnostics. The Gnostics were Jews attempting to steal Christians away from Christianity and they had some truly scary beliefs that were Pagan (Luciferian).

Regarding how we know the books of the Bible are the ones that should be in it, that one's pretty simple.

First, we have the widespread writings, all over the old world to compare. So we can see what was widespread and what was just an attempt at being injected into the texts. We also have a prophecy about when God would stop giving new Revelation and prophecy to the Jews. And sure enough, all of the Apocryphal books the Catholics added in were after that time, and when Israel began adding in all kinds of laws to their religion--laws that Jesus fought against and defied. The Dead Sea Scrolls are another marker we have which show that our manuscript copies have not been altered. There were alterations to the New Testament in later centuries, but we use the earlier manuscript copies to translate from because they don't have the additions.

With the New Testament, we had Christians circulating the same gospels and and apostles' letters all over the old world. So we have copies all over the place to compare with each other. That way, we easily see attempts at adding or changing the Bible and we toss those out.

Also, the letters and gospels that were widely circulated were the ones that everyone agreed were inspired by God. Eventually, at an ecumenical council, it was decided that only the books that all of the Church had already agreed were inspired by God (those that everyone had been passing around and copying, the ones I mentioned above) would be the ones included in the New Testament canon. So the church, as a whole--everyone--chose the New Testament gospels and letters, not a ruling council. Sure, the Catholics attempted to change that at later times and they pushed their Apocrypha on their own people, but Protestant scholars went back to the earliest Church Fathers' writings and the other manuscript copies to find out what really should've been in the Bible.

So we have 100% certainty that the Bible we have today is legitimate. And you don't have to trust me on that. You can look at plenty of scholars' works on it and they'll direct you to the Church Fathers' writings that prove it, as well as the old manuscript copies. We can actually reconstruct the entire Bible several times over just from the Church Fathers' writings. They were incredibly prolific. With their writings alone, we have the Bible with no added books.

Hope that made sense.

 

I forgot to mention one other thing. You said you like people who have experiences apart from New Age and trust their information more, like in the NDEs. I understand the logic behind, what you're saying, but keep something in mind: some of those people are Jesuit operatives selling these stories for the purpose of pulling people away from the truth And getting them into things like the New Age movement. For instance, the 23 Minutes in Hell author is a fraud. We know this because his account does not match his wife's account. And their accounts of the incident change from telling to telling. These are not minor differences like you see with regular stories that are told over and over again. These are major discrepancies that cause poblems that are impossible to overcome within the story. I also believe the few other people who have come out that support his story with stories of their own that are similar to his are likely operatives as well. Maybe he is. Just trying to make money and push doctrine on his own, but the fact that other people with similar stories emerged that are seemingly giving his story more credibility tells me that this is a larger orchestrated ordeal. But who knows. Hard to tell for sure.

If I posted this one already, I apologize. I loaded up TMSwiki and discovered this message sitting here that I hadn't sent yet.

 

From what i understand is that you're of the christian faith and that's ok. Are you trying to proof the correctness of your faith and as such see any experience that doesn't confirm your beliefs as false or as a way of any group opposed to it trying to discredit that faith? I do believe that a lot of new age beliefs are bogus but that doesn't mean spiritual experiences that doesn't confirm the christian faith are all bogus. I had several experiences and am not involved in new age, which is more a term that is used to describe experiences and practices that don't belong to any or partly to main stream religions.

But anyway, i'm not here to discuss the right and wrongs of belief systems. which are just that belief systems that try to describe reality. As in the present process, i feel its more important to deal with the stuck emotions and feelings. i feel people are hanging to belief systems because being here now, naked without beliefs is frightening to most people.
The purpose of this forum i think is to deal with stuck emotions and emotional signatures. The presence process has helped me a lot with seeing all my encounters in daily life as a means of trying to trigger me into feeling in what i'm suppressing.

 

Oh, I couldn't care less about promoting a religion. I don't like organized religion. I don't call myself a Christian because Christians have totally misrepresented Jesus and they don't believe quite the same things He taught and the early Christians believed. They weren't even called Christians originally. That was a derogatory term the Pagans gave to them that means little Christs. It's very telling that Christians go by the term that the Pagans gave them so long ago. No thank you. Most people see the world as God on top, religion below that, and humans below that, as if religion is a group you must join to get to God. I see religion as more of a wall that can easily block you from God and does for most people. So for me, it's just God and then man--no wall of religion in between. Why? Because religion doesn't technically exist. It's a convention. It's only in the minds of the people who conceived it. But it's not a tangible, physical thing. It's not real. God is real. Humans are real. We're His/Its kids and we're made in His image. We're here to learn from experiences we have here that we couldn't have had in Heaven and to help others by playing our part in this reality. So it's like we're actors in a movie and God's the director, but we forgot we're actors being directed and that this is a movie. We think it's all real and we think this is the real us. And that's required so we can be fully immersed in the experience and learn. Coming out of the delusion of the movie and realizing the truth is part of healing and maturing our hearts because it gives them the truth they need to correct the lies that are generating all of the negative emotions which harm our health and drag us down. Truth is paramount to healing. Many think it's just emotions causing the problems we have, but it's not. There are beliefs attached to those emotions. And if the beliefs aren't dealt with, they'll keep generating the negative emotions. TPP does a good job of correcting a lot of the lies with its programming tactics. But some people's subconscious can be programmed like that and others can't. I had to develop another method to program my subconscious so it would release the lies and accept the truth. TPP got me started in a big way, though, and it'll work for most people. I was just a particularly difficult case, that's all. I had to do it slightly differently.

Regarding Jesus and religion... Jesus didn't start a religion. He showed how to live life in a relationship with God and then gave Himself as a sacrifice to cover all sin, which showed us that God doesn't hold anything against us...which means we can forgive ourselves and stop holding things against ourselves. That drops our shame, which is at the crux of all of our problems (well, fear is too, but removal of shame often removes a ton of fear, as well). That's what Jesus did. Mankind later turned it into a religion. The original followers just called themselves Disciples or Disciples of the Way. What way? The way of life that is in relationship with God. That's all. It's very simple. Christians knew Hell got people back to Heaven as opposed to tortured them forever, and yet that belief was removed eventually once the Catholics got control of the religion. Religion, in my opinion, is a trap. Not that it can't direct someone to a relationship with God. It can and does. But it's been so heavily corrupted that not many people really move into a good, solid relationship with God. Instead, they end up relying on a church and a preacher to tell them what the truth is and few really search for it on their own nowadays because everyone's stressed out and doesn't have the time or make the time or any other number of reasons.

So no, I'm not a Christian even though I believe Jesus was/is God and saved the world. I believe several other Christian beliefs, as well, but I believe very differently on Hell and our pre-existence in Heaven. I'm not trying to convert anyone either since the Bible says only God can do that. Besides, if I'm wrong about my beliefs, I'd be doing a disservice to others if I convinced them I was correct. So people can take the information I give or leave it. It's not my concern. The Bible says my job is to love people unconditionally. Part of that is sharing the truth with people. In this case, I was sharing the truth about these spiritual experiences we see out there. Many are genuine and useful. Probably most are genuine. However, we know for certain that some of them aren't. And because I've watched interviews with people such as ex-Jesuit priest operatives, Pentagon officials who's job it was to track Jesuit priest operatives in America, and others involved in this sort of those sorts of things, I shared a tiny bit of that with you just so you're aware. The thing I hate the most is when people get deceived. That's why I share what I do. I didn't want you to think that all of these testimonies are legitimate. I've seen Christians ones that are completely bogus, as well as Buddhist ones that are bogus, and others, too. What you do with the information I shared is up to you. I wasn't attempting to convert you or anything like that. What would I convert you to since I don't even call myself a Christian and don't like organized religion? lol

I think when Kalo came into the conversation, it brought in a lot of information I didn't intend to discuss and I think I got him mixed up with you at one point. My apologies.

Regarding New Age, if you want to know what's behind New Age, I highly recommend reading The Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow by Constance Cumby, an attorney who has literally read thousands of New Ages books and publications. No one is better versed in it than she is. You'll see some extremely revealing things in that book. She puts New Age beliefs beside Nazi beliefs and goals in a chart in her book and they are exactly the same. Problem is, most New Agers nowadays don't know about the Luciferian founders of New Age nor their teachings. So they end up thinking the religion is all love and peace. Like I said, I hate when people are deceived. There is some truth in New Age and one or two practices that are very useful. No religion is without some good points. But being associated with it, in my opinion, is very dangerous on the spiritual ends of things.

You asked if I don't accept spiritual experiences that don't line up with the Christian faith. No, that's not the way I think. And that's not why I don't accept some of the spiritual experiences out there. I don't accept some of the supposed spiritual experiences out there for a couple of reasons, but one of them is that psychologists who specialize in near-death experiences and spiritual experiences also say that some of them are bogus. They know this because they have hundreds of thousands of them recorded now which as allowed them to see the hallmarks of genuine experiences. Some of the experiences don't at all fit those hallmarks and we can see a very specific agenda at play in those experiences. That's one reason I don't accept all spiritual experiences. The second reason is that some people's stories have details that show them to be fraudulent stories.

For example, the 23 Minutes in Hell book was written by a Christian who claims he spent 23 minutes in Hell. This book puts an incredible fear of Hell in people and drives home the fiery burning torturous nature of Hell that most people believe nowadays...and that belief doesn't come from Christianity or Judaism origianally--it comes from Paganism in Ancient Egypt. The Sophists said that the Egyptian priests introduced the belief to control the masses. When Paganism was mixed into Judaism during Solomon's reign, some people picked up the belief. It came and went over time. Early Christianity didn't believe in it, but Catholicism, via Augustine, popularized it and they got rid of the belief that Hell isn't fiery and is temporary and strictly used to purify people to get them to Heaven (including the demons). 23 Minutes in Hell is clearly trying to promote that Pagan belief, but that's not why I know it's a fraud. It's a fraud because if you listen to the author tell the story and his wife tell the story, their stories are different and they keep changing. The author's version changes in some of his tellings, as does his wife's telling of it. The conflicts between their versions of the story are impossible to get lined up unless they're lying. So they both know they're lying and they tried to get their stories straight, but they've failed on occasion. When I see clear agendas and factual errors in people's spiritual experiences, I don't buy them. I know the hallmarks of near-death experiences, too, so I can see through an ingenuine one like the researchers can. A person doesn't need to be involved in any religion to have spiritual experiences. Also, I believe the New Age spiritual experiences very much line up with the Bible, but most of them don't line up with it in a good way. When I helped people with multiple personality disorder (MPD / DID), I had them go into a spirit realm to do the work on their hearts. I can't go in there because I wasn't abused as a child causing me to split and flee into that realm. So they would tell me what they saw in there and I would in turn tell them how to navigate that realm and utilize it for finding God and allowing Him to help them heal from their childhood trauma. So I'm very familiar with the spirit realm and how it works, as well as spiritual experiences. I'm not hear to discredit anyone's spiritual experiences since I believe nearly all of them are real. I'm just sharing information to help people better understand them.

Does that make sense? Sorry that took so many words to explain all of that.

If you want to discuss any of these subjects further, just PM me so we're not taking up this thread with this type of stuff. You want to stick to TPP stuff here, I can tell, and so do I. I didn't mean for the conversation to get off track again. If I think this post is too distracting or doesn't have some useful information in it, I may eventually remove it. I don't like to weigh down the thread with things that aren't beneficial or are too far off topic. Sorry if you got the wrong impression. Kalo didn't mean to, but he kind of threw the conversation out of wack accidentally.

 

When we say God, that's according to me an belief or concept itself. When we say God is real, how do you know, what or who is God, what is real and why? The word God is in itself a learned concept we get from any source around us. We constantly interpreting reality around us based on beliefs that are not our own and we not even sure if they are true or not. What do we actually mean when we say God, how do you define it. We say he, or some say she or both, but we're projecting our own concepts upon something or somebody. Maybe its not an somebody but something beyond what we can grasp at our current state of understanding.

Thats an interpretation as well or an belief. I do see that people that have had spiritual experiences mention something similar, but then again are those experiences an reflection of their deep seated beliefs. Like people in NDE's meet beings that reflect their religious beliefs. Like Christians see a being of light and its jesus, buddhist see buddha etc.

Nevertheless, i do start to see through the present process through direct experience that whats happening outside me is a reflection of the content of my own mind, that is beliefs, emotions etc. Also when the emotions or beliefs are dealt with something else will be reflected outside me. Who is creating those situations, The Self, Soul, God or what? If other people are send to us to reflect whats inside us, that indeed means we're all like actors directed by a choreographer, whatever or whoever that is. Is that the purpose of life, or are there many other purposes why we are here?

Maybe we just don't know enough about reality or the nature of consciousness that we can't afford to have definitive answers, but instead of answers we should keep questioning.

I think that's the most important message in the Bible, but people are people, we like to organize reality because otherwise our minds don't feel safe. So people keep creating belief systems aka religions. Part of it is also control, Not only from the powers that be, but most people. People feel threatened when somebody else beliefs something totally different and don't feel safe, so we start manipulating other people to make them believe what we do.

I think that's the core problem of humanity, we identify with our beliefs, we think that;s who we are, our identities, a set of beliefs, emotions etc. But i think we are not, we are awareness that have lost our true identity, our soul, self, or godspark or whatever you might call it. Maybe the buddhist were more close to it, but like most people, they again made an religion out of it. I feel God, Self or whatever sends us special people to point us back to the truth, like jesus, buddha etc, but then the mind is getting in the way and starts interpreting it and we end up with religions again. also the powers that be, don't like it that people are really free, because that threatens their power.

Thats why i listen more to people that had authentic spiritual experiences, especially people that were not involved in any religion, new age, or philosophical systems.

I see what you're saying but also that psychologist has its own set of beliefs and interprets those experiences accordingly.

Yes i seen several of those near death experiences an what i noticed is that some of the persons were toured around hell with a being they identified as jesus and showed more compassion towards those souls there then the being identified as jesus. I feel indeed its there to instill fear into people and gives a false image of God or whatever is the organizing principle of reality. I always think to myself, if people don't belief that i don't exist, would i put them in hell to be tortured there for eternity. If people don't belief i exist then good on them, makes me laugh, but would that be a reason to torture them forever, definitely no. So how can a being or God that is unconditional love do that? that just makes sense.

Also indeed, the people that had those experiences can be experiencing the reflections of their own inner state, like here on earth when you are deeply troubled inside you experience a deeply troubled outside. Makes more sense that hell is a state of being in the non physical world, reflected as a thought reflective environment where you spent time till you dealt with it and then naturally you move on to a more loving environment.

Yes i understand, we all just share our understandings here about it, which could be wrong or right, but we all are at certain level of understanding and interpret experiences accordingly.

Yes i agree, now we discussed this, i feel we should focus on the purpose of this forum thread and that is the Presence Process. I just was on page 14 on this thread and saw something i wanted to respond to but the response ended at the end of this thread on page 38 were you were discussing this with Kalo and because of that i ended up in this discussion.

But yes move on and focus on TPP.







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