The Presence Process - Share Experiences & Ask Questions

Hey Brian, welcome back! It looks like you are making up for lost time, .

I have been dealing with my fair share of resistance during the last couple of weeks. I've just started Week 9. This is crazy. I never stick with something this long. I will definitely have another go at this because it feels like I have just barely chipped the tip of the iceberg. I certainly haven't followed TPP to the letter but that's all part of the resistance, I presume. I expected more outpouring of emotions but then think I'd be better off not expecting anything. Whatever happens or doesn't happen does or doesn't for a reason. Right now the main issue that's come up for me is isolation.

 

Brian, I think Benson's relaxation response is a precondition for creating a state of consciousness where latent psychic content - some of which can be quite disturbing - can manifest. So RR is certainly not the goal of TPP but is a door for entering into it.

 

That's interesting stuff, Bruce. Thanks!

Yep, making up for lost time. I didn't realize anyone was posting in here until Forest emailed me and said, "The forum is glitched and sometimes doesn't let people know when posts have been made." lol

 

Yeah, I can understand isolation creeping in during TPP. As emotions come out, a typical response is isolation. I'm sure it'll work its way out. I think I may have isolated just a little, at times, during my first PP.

I know the first PP is said to be for the purpose of integrating the overall emotional charge. What that means, I can't really say. lol It's a very abstract description. My guess is that it means it integrates our fear of feeling our feelings so that we can now feel better. I interpret it that way because when I finished my first PP, I could feel so much better and much more vividly when I'd watch movies and listen to music. It was like the difference between playing a racing game on a computer and racing an actual car on a race track. With a console game, you're safe and you don't feel a car around you or the road or anything. When you're on a track, you could spin off and wreck the car, injure yourself, die, etc. You feel the road, the weight of the car, its subtle losses of traction--everything. It's one of the most exhilarating things I do. Nothing else in my experience quite competes with it, except maybe high-speed kart racing. My first PP made life really cool to feel. I suppressed again during my second PP, not intentially, of course, but that's to be expected when painful emotions are about to come up again. This third PP is great. I'm not nearly as suppressed this time, and I'm feeling a lot more and integrating things more readily and quickly. My heart is now more excited about all of this stuff and sees that it can trust the process and the painful emotions. Very cool stuff.

That's great to hear that you're going to continue. Can't wait to hear more of your experiences!

 

Bruce, I didn't quite understand what you meant by the above statement. Could you reword that?

 

IOWs: You have to relax your mind before latent psychological content can rise to the surface. Otherwise you stay too attached to your childhood drama, mental gossip, personal story line or whatever else you want to call it.

 

Bruce,

Oh, now I see what you mean. That makes sense. Often, thinking is used to suppressed uncomfortable emotions passed down to us from our parents. When the mind stops thinking (relaxes), the barrier (the thinking) that was keeping the uncomfortable emotions suppressed is gone momentarily. At that point, they're free to surface for integration when they feel safe enough to do so. Sounds like Benson's on the right track.

But I will say, I haven't always been good at stilling my mind, and the emotions still manage to come up. I think part of it is that they feel safe enough to do so, and part of it is Presence and/or God giving them a push. lol I might make more progress when my mind is more calm, but I haven't tried to track this yet. I'm just now addressing my obsessive mind in my 3rd PP. We'll see how it goes. I think I'm about to stop reading both fiction and non-fiction books in order to starve my mind of constantly taking in information to escape by entertainment or learning. This should bring up the emotions it's suppressing. My mind needs to learn what it is to truly rest, just like it used to when I was 16 after God dropped my shame.

 

Michael Brown's PP keeps reminding me of the Yaqui sorcerer Don Juan's advice to Carlos Castaneda in Tales of Power (1974) that at some point in your spiritual development, "You have to be done with personal history". Sounds like a lot of people are saying that same thing, including Dr Sarno.

 

Yeah, a lot of people don't understand that the emotional signatures are passed down in the womb, and so the personal events that triggered those emotions to surface are not the cause. Thus, personal history isn't that useful. It's best to hit the causal point, which is the emotional signature, so that the story of "why" we're in pain no longer has power over us. As long as we're victims, we cannot overcome, because we're not responsible for the quality of our experience--our perceived captors are. Makes it impossible to integrate.

 

I think you have to factor in brain development outside the womb too during the first six years of life prior to the formation of the individual ego. A lot of important stuff going on there we're unconscious of later on involving the mother-child relationship.

 

Oh, I was strictly discussing the vibrational aspect and its emotional signatures we get from our parents in the womb (genetics is a reflection of the spiritual/vibration condition passed down). Brain development isn't a concern of mine. My wife's a PhD in Behavioral and Brain sciences. She's on the cutting edge of brain research on brain injury and development as well as therapy with teens. She says the brain is incredibly plastic, which means it has an amazing ability to change, to rewire itself. She sometimes does SMART training camps for soldiers and teens and adults where she teaches them certain ways to intake information and use their memory. Many of the soldiers have gotten over their PTSD instantly while taking the 1-week course, because something clicked in their brain (I would say their heart) and they realized they didn't have to be subject to PTSD anymore. They were fine after that. Scientists can't directly, physically test the heart, so they often get cut short at the brain and thoughts. The brain adapts, and the genetics adapt as well. I think a few posts back I explained how Epigenetics and working with multiples proves that genes change. So, in regard to genetics and brain development, I don't put any focus on that whatsoever since they can change according to my emotional state. Everything points back to the emotional state as the causal point. So, while brain development and gene configurations are definitely important and do have an effect on a person, as you pointed out, I choose to go to the emotions and stick with that. I do this is because if I get stuck on the physical (the brain and genes), those are just effects and I might get this idea that I'm victim to them and cannot change them. But if I sit at the emotional level, then I can effect change at the causal point, and my brain, mind, genes, and physical body will all change as a result. I can't necessarily correct all physical issues, because some are forever formed, but what I cannot change isn't important when I'm doing work to change things.

I don't know if you were saying to put a focus on the brain development or not. I was just commenting on it from my perspective. In regard to ego, the first seven years are definitely the development of the ego, as you said. Mine began developing right out of the womb, pretty much. My mom was so repressed while carrying me, so I had that fear immediately, and when I saw my sister getting spanked, I immediately stopped expressing myself and held emotions inside. That's why my mom says I was an angel baby who never cried. My 7-year cycle ended up as a 4- or 5-year cycle when it was all said and done. The emotions are passed down in the womb at the vibrational level, then they're triggered during the first 7 years of life by the parents, at the vibrational, emotional, and physical levels, I think. That's how they "fully install" in the child and establish the ego. That's when our personality is developing, and it mainly develops from that fear that drives the ego--fear of feeling emotions. Once we're free of fear of feeling emotions, we start to work out the ego's issues if we know how, and we can find our true personality underneath.

At least, that's how I understand it. I could be wrong, of course.

 

Yes, Brian, naive genetic determinism certainly has infected the popular imagination, hasn't it? Unfortunately, it's also infected the medical establishment as well. Epigenetics and neural endoplasticity shouldn't be dismissed lightly.

 

Yep. I laugh at myself sometimes when I explain, here in TMSwiki, about genetics not being set in stone. I forget that one of the main reasons I chose this forum to post in is because people here understand the mind-body connection. I forget that they already have proof of that. lol I suppose if someone is searching for The Presence Process and comes across this thread, but isn't aware of Dr. Sarno's stuff, posts with that information in it would be helpful.

 

Here is a question I find the breathing without pause causes me to hyper ventilate causing anxiety attack what am i doing wrong?

 

Boston,

Excellent question. I'll explain the different types of breathing and differentiate them from hyperventilation. Then I'll explain what I'm guessing you're experiencing.

Normal Breathing
When you're breathing normally, you don't breathe very deep, and you spend a second or two pulling in air, and a second or two breathing out. There's no gap between the breaths. As long as you consciously breathe this way, you're doing exactly what The Presence Process is asking of you. The Presence Process recommends deeper breathes at a normal speed, but said it's not required.

Varied Types of Breathing
This type of breathing is either normal breathing, as described above, or slight variations on breathing. Sometimes, I breathe at the same speed, but I breathe deeper. Sometimes, I breathe normal, except I speed up my breathing just a little--about 1 second for inhale, 1 second for exhale. Sometimes, I breathe deep really deep, but not so quick. Sometimes, I breath really deep and sort of quick. Most of the time, I breathe either normal, or I breathe deeper, or I breathe deeper and a little faster. A person can actually breathe pretty quickly without hyperventilating.

Hyperventilation
When you're breathing about 3 total breaths (3 inhales and 3 exhales) in a second's time, you're breathing too quickly and you'll hyperventilate. That type of breathing is usually pretty shallow.

If you're purposely breathing extremely fast, like the hyperventilating described above, then you're correct--you're causing yourself to hyperventilate. The simple fix is to slow your breathing to a normal pace.

If you're breathing normally, or even slightly faster than normal, the only way you're going to hyperventilate is if anxiety surfaces and your automatic reaction is breathing really fast. This can easily happen to people who experience anxiety or fearful situations. They either stop their breathing altogether, or they start breathing really quickly. Kids can do either. So, when those fears from childhood surface, your reaction might be to breathe really fast, causing hyperventilation. Or, it's possible that the anxiety is causing you to think you're hyperventilating, but you're actually not. Like I said, a human can breathe pretty quickly without hyperventilating. It takes very rapid, forced breaths to hyperventilate.

If this occurred to me while breathing, I would put my focus on the emotions and the felt resonance (if I feel them) and then calmly control my breathing to a normal pace. If I feel nothing while this rapid breathing is occurring, I'd calmly slow my breathing to a normal pace, then ask, "What is the emotion and the felt resonance that's causing this reaction?" Then I'd wait and see if it surfaces into my awareness. If it doesn't, I don't worry about it. I'll feel it when the time is right, which could be days or weeks later.

Here's a link to the audio of how one breathes in TPP. It takes a little while before the breathing is loud enough for you to hear. I think the audio slowly fades in for some reason:

TPP Breathing

 

Boston,

I forgot to add, if you're feeling anxiety surface while you breathe, then The Presence Process is working properly. Michael Brown says that people would contact him saying, "I'm feeling horrible now that I've started The Presence Process. What am I doing wrong?" He responded with something like this: "If you feel awful, then TPP is working properly. This process isn't about feeling better, it's about getting better at feeling--feeling everything. And there are a lot of charged emotions below our awareness. As we become aware of them through felt perception, it doesn't feel good at all. But if we sit with them without condition, they will integrate. This process doesn't feel good at first, and it's not so we can feel better. But feeling better is an eventual byproduct of this process, because the more emotional charges that integrate, the fewer there are to trigger and cause us discomfort."

Also, since this process slowly restores our ability to feel everything, we're able to feel our authentic joy and peace that's always present within us. For me, I've been depressed and joyful both at the same time. The joy sort of outweighed the depression, so I was perfectly fine while depressed. I get excited now when I feel emotions like fear surface into my awareness. Fear is always the root of anger and sadness, so that means I'm really getting down to one of the deep causal emotions. And that means I'm making more progress toward wholeness. Good luck! Can't wait to hear more about your experiences.

 

I just started to re read the book before I start again I will be in touch thx for your response Brian

 

Hi Boston Redsox

It sounds as if you are struggling with TPP right now, not too mention your physical symptoms. I noticed from another thread you had been in hospital recently. I just wanted to ask, do you think it may be time to slow down your efforts to heal? Hyperventilating may very well be happening due to your breathing technique but maybe it's also a sign from Presence/The Universe or whatever that you are overwhelmed by all of your recent learnings and doings. TPP, as far as I understand, is more about being than doing. I first read about TPP on the old wiki forum several years ago. At the time I was a TMS newbie, really struggling with pain, fear and belief. TPP sounded fascinating but I was also a daunted by it. I decided then not to buy the book until I was at a different place in my life. Recently I downloaded the Kindle version just to read it but once I finished the book I really wanted to experience the process. My main intention, and Brown asks us to consider our intention before we begin, was most definitely to get better at feeling. I was still not in touch with my feelings and would do everything possible to stuff them down even if it meant suffering from pain or TMS equivalents. Brown cautions us several times in the book that we are to go through the process so we can get better at feeling, not for the purpose of feeling better. So if you are at the point where you really just need to feel better - and this is 100% understandable when you are in so much pain that you need to admit yourself to a hospital - show yourself some compassion and slow down.

 

Thx yb44 and yes you are right I have slowed down and I am letting myself heal not forcing myself anymore….the anxiety attack came on from starting to go threw a separation with my wife ( long time coming) but we are both fine with that.. ( maybe I am not somewhere in my mind) never the less it did bring this on and I could not control it.

 

No problem.

Yeah, separation with your wife would be really tough. I can see that being a huge trigger for fear of survival or fear of not being loved by someone anymore (being alone). That's a huge one most people, I think. We're not taught to love ourselves unconditionally, so we end up trying to get love from outside of ourselves--from others. So marriage often suppresses that feeling of not being lovable. It's a sense that we aren't good enough, that we're worthless. I've struggled with that one my entire life. I received that emotional signature from my parents and they from their parents and so on. Everyone deals with it to some degree, and everyone finds different ways to suppress it. It's insecurity, at its core, and that's what I'm dealing with in this 3rd TPP.

It took me months to get to this point, but finally, I'm getting to deal with my insecurity! I'm on Week 7 and yesterday hit me like a ton of bricks. I handled it surprisingly well. My heart, Presence, and/or God orchestrated everything to happen Monday to trigger my insecurity like mad! Lots of very difficult things happened. And Sunday (the first day of Week 7 for me) very subtly started triggering things in me, too. This morning (Tuesday) I had a dream that continued the triggering and I woke up and eventually realized what the dream was symbolically about. And I started to feel the felt resonance of insecurity in my chest, big time. The chest area symbolizes "putting on a front." If a person is insecure, they put on a front. Even though I'm very authentic and honest in many ways, I also have aspects of me that are still locked down behind a front that suppresses them. I put on a front almost from the time I was born. That's why my mom says I was such a great baby. I was too afraid to ask, by crying, for my needs to be met. I was fearful--insecure. So, I've been in protection mode this whole time. I've known that for years, but this morning, my awareness dropped into the felt-resonance of my heart/spirit and I truly understood it in my heart finally. It was really cool. Hell, I'm still feeling it now. I felt it for a while in bed, then got up and breathed and then sat with it for an hour, basically. Then journaled about it for a while. It was so awesome to start receiving insight on it rather than just knowing it intellectually. I'm so happy to be getting down to this issue, because it's my core issue of dysfunctionality. Everything centers around this. Once this is integrated, everything else will be a lot easier to integrate and I'll feel a ton of relief. I'll feel free from shame/insecurity finally. It's not that I'm seeking that destination. Sure, it'll be cool and I know partly what it feels like, because I felt awesome at age 16 when God dropped my shame. And I'm excited about feeling that. But I'm actually excited about feeling this right now and I'm willing to feel it as long as I need to feel it. It actually feels really good, oddly enough. I'm beginning to wonder if it hasn't partially integrated already and that's why I'm feeling so good. I tend toward that explanation. So, this is really cool.

yb44 made some good points. I'm sure you'll figure out what's best for you and do that. I don't think we can take any wrong steps in this life. God, Presence, and our heart all have it worked out for us.