1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
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What else is there - Seriously

Discussion in 'Support Subforum' started by eskimoeskimo, Aug 7, 2020.

  1. eskimoeskimo

    eskimoeskimo Well known member

    Ok but tms_joe is saying that there is no way to get better unless you allow yourself to 100 know and accept the 'truth' as he sees it.
  2. Balsa11

    Balsa11 Well known member

    Well it's basically the stress response. The body's chemical environment is constantly changing so you can't control every little thing. The choice is the mindset, but it's like on off switch that you have to switch on. You calibrate your mind like an instrument, using your intuition instead of numbers.
  3. eskimoeskimo

    eskimoeskimo Well known member

    You lost me
  4. Balsa11

    Balsa11 Well known member

    It's 100% commitment not belief it's debated a lot nothing to worry about

    Just don't be disconnected from your intuition and the feeling of life inside you
  5. Balsa11

    Balsa11 Well known member

    Instead of just trying to change your thoughts, you can observe both your body and mind and watch it shift between relaxed and stressed. The calibration happens when a flare up dies down. It's like a hypersensitive sensor. Sometimes behavior is expected, sometimes unusual. But with your gut feeling, not numbers
    Drew likes this.
  6. Balsa11

    Balsa11 Well known member

    Different people experience resilience in different ways. Sometimes what gets me out of a rut is that there is no one right answer, but that the bodymind adapts when you don't force it
  7. eskimoeskimo

    eskimoeskimo Well known member

    I give up. Can't live with it any longer
  8. MariaK

    MariaK New Member

    I feel for you that you are suffering so much. I have tried a fraction of what you have and have gotten quite a bit of relief. But still have a ways to go. I will write more when it's not so late. But I was wondering if you have tried to understand why you are so overcome by the pain, if, by your own admission, it isn't really that bad? And what are all the reasons you feel guilty about it?

    Have you not had any ability at all to stop yourself from obsessing about the pain? And wondering if it's "real" or TMS? And wondering when it will go away? I ask that because it's so key to getting some bit of relief for yourself. And I'm just wanting to understand what your experience has been with trying to stop thinking about it or worrying that it will never go away. Are you not able to do it at all or is it just very difficult to do?

    I have a lot more to say. Tomorrow, hopefully. Hang in there.
    eskimoeskimo and Balsa11 like this.
  9. Balsa11

    Balsa11 Well known member

    Don't give up. Just take it easy.

    If you're having ideation let your docs know unless you feel safer at home

    @RogueWave @balto @Dorado we can't give up on @eskimoeskimo
    We're here for you.
    Drew, eskimoeskimo and MariaK like this.
  10. Balsa11

    Balsa11 Well known member

  11. Balsa11

    Balsa11 Well known member

  12. RogueWave

    RogueWave Well known member

    @Kozas Congratulations! I read your post about taking the long-term, serious approach, and now you will be well on your way. Keep going, don't expect linear results, and you will be fine. You have made a decision with a very firm intention, and this is what is required for lasting change. As mentioned before, the mentality change required is not much different than quitting a substance, losing weight, etc. Gimmicks and fads will only yield short-term results, if any. Consistency is key, even when progress appears to have stalled or gone backwards. I am really looking forward to your success story, no matter how long it is from now.

    @eskimoeskimo I have been watching this thread when I have the time to do so, and I hesitate to respond yet again, but as several of us have stated, we feel for you because we've been there. I also decided to respond because I know many other people are reading this thread, so it's not just for you.

    You have mastered suffering. This is not to say that you have done this consciously, as no one wants to suffer. But you unconsciously practiced the thoughts, words, feelings of suffering so often that you have become extremely efficient at it. You just haven't realized how much you do this, and/or haven't put enough energy into changing it, or you wouldn't be here.

    Practice of anything, good or bad, just makes you better at that thing. At some point it becomes effortless, like a high level dancer or pro athlete.

    You have every right to feel and think the way you do. This is not a judgment of you personally. But it it this constant repetition, and validation of that repetition, that is keeping you suffering.

    I love to read personal stories about people who have healed themselves of ailments, whether TMS-related or not, because the individual process is fascinating. Recently I listened to an in-depth story of someone who healed themselves from later-stage cancer after regular treatments failed her. She said one day amidst all the suffering, chemo side effects, depression, and potentially impending death that she decided to take matters into her own hands. The first thing she did was to carry a notebook around and make a quick note every single time she had a negative thought about anything. Very quickly she filled the notepad up, and she was shocked to find out how often she really thought/felt awful things (understandably so!). This was her first turning point, because she finally became self-aware that a vast majority of her thoughts/feelings were destructive. She became the observer.

    And as we've mentioned repeatedly, thoughts and feelings create chemical releases in the body, which over time causes dysfunction, and then influence thoughts and feelings, and the cycle continues.

    She then decided she was going to meditate every day, even if only for a few minutes, and she wouldn't get up from that meditation until she consciously changed how she felt. Sometimes she could do this quickly, sometimes it took over an hour. She said many times she felt as though she wasn't making progress, and sometimes even felt that she was fighting a losing battle. But she kept going, little by little, every day. She created strength when she thought she had none. She'd catch herself slipping back into old thoughts and feelings throughout the day, and she'd shift them as well as she could. She was never able to do this 100% of the time, but she kept trying. After a full year of this approach, her body slowly started to heal. She had stopped all drug treatments before taking this on herself, because they weren't working very well, and they were causing too many side effects, so this change wasn't due to any medicine. Within another year or so she was cancer free.

    This is just one story, one process. Is everyone's healing approach going to be the same? Of course not. But the underlying process IS the same. Anyone here who has shared their healing stories have one major thing in common: We all became aware of how we were keeping ourselves stuck, took responsibility for our thoughts/feelings/actions, and put the time and energy into changing those things. Not for a few months or a few weeks, but for good. Can I do this 100% of the time? No. But it wasn't necessary to do 100% to heal. When you have the self-awareness to catch yourself slipping into old patterns, you can stop it faster the more you practice it.

    Not everyone will heal in the same way, which is why things can get confusing with so many opinions. But if you look deeper, you'll see the commonalities in all of the approaches.

    We have also discussed at length the ways in which people sabotage recovery (these things are very clearly listed in 'Mental Health Through Will Training' (MHTWT):

    Romanticism and Intellectualism in thinking, Defeatism, and Self-Diagnosis (not fully accepting a TMS diagnosis is a from of self-diagnosis) just to name of few of the major ones.

    This thread alone is littered with you doing all of them, repeatedly. You are constantly trying to validate how you feel, and your current situation, but in doing so you will just get more of the same.

    You keep mentioning all the possibly terrifying things that can come from your symptoms, but in all this time, how many of them have come to fruition? You're still alive. In all the times I had intense heart palpitations, I never had a heart attack. It wasn't until I got to the point where I'd start laughing when it happened that they started to go away. There is always a 'what if' with anything. Nothing is totally safe if you really want to look at things that way. The choice in how you view it is yours, but until you recognize that fear is winning, and consciously try to change that in whatever way you can, you will remain stuck. And not just change it once and go 'why am I not healed yet?' but over and over, thousands of times if necessary, until you un-train the old habit and create a new one.

    In fact in MHTWT, there is an entire chapter called 'The patient wants the ends of health, not its means.'

    Making these changes when you are suffering can be very difficult, but it's not impossible. I also like to watch weight-loss success stories, because they are inspiring. Do you think someone with hundreds of pounds to lose will see changes every day once they start on their process? Of course not. But they keep going because the bigger picture is always kept in mind.

    Permanent change takes a level of decision, discipline, and intention greater than the addiction to your current situation.

    So take all of that high-powered acumen, intelligence, and frustration you have, and look ONLY at yourself. Read all your posts, but imagine they are from someone else, and maybe you'll start to see your pattern. Take full stock of absolutely all your thoughts, feelings, words and actions. Become the observer to these things, like @Kozas is just starting to do, and you will have your clear starting point. Then don't wait to feel better to start changing them, just start changing them now, over and over, until it starts to get easier. Practice a new pattern, and sooner or later you will live it without needing to put as much effort into it. Let the healing come from that change, but don't expect it to be fast.

    There is no one set way to do this, but we've given a general template to go on. You are extremely sharp, so find your own way if need be. Different approaches work for different people, so find or make yours.
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
    zclesa, JanAtheCPA, Hillbilly and 7 others like this.
  13. TrustIt

    TrustIt Well known member

    @RogueWave such clear and eloquent advice. and this particular sentence stands out the most for me because of past experience with filming people on camera and then letting them watch it. we don't often get to observe ourselves, and most of us don't enjoy it. we avoid the camera! why is that? what must we think of ourselves in those moments? when filmed in a normal conversation, people who then watch themselves more as an observer, suddenly see things like body language, how much they laugh/giggle after speaking, variable hair twisting and hand wringing and whatever other signs of discomfort and self-consciousness they express. it's definitely profound and informative of how our subconscious is acting out and how tenacious those patterns are. i like the idea of writing down negative thoughts. or even snapping a rubber band on your wrist. or putting quarters in a jar. anything to remind ourselves just how much we actually stay in those fearful and negative states of mind. i'm pretty sure we would ALL be surprised! (p.s., from the way you express these ideas, you must surely be a joe dispenza student or even a staff member? :)
    tgirl, plum and RogueWave like this.
  14. RogueWave

    RogueWave Well known member

    Great analogy! Yes, I'm a big fan of his, but I found his stuff towards the end of my healing process. I pass it on to people because he is able to express things so perfectly that anyone can understand it with some time and study.

    His info parallels a lot of other self-help methods, but goes into far more measurable detail, like brain scans, that help objectively prove what we experience. For me, this is just a natural extension of things that Dr. Sarno really helped to develop.
    Balsa11, tgirl, plum and 2 others like this.
  15. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    "Breaking The Habit of Being Yourself" is my favorite of his. I took away some gems from that one back when I was struggling. He talks about how we memorize suffering until it becomes automatic and who you are. A belief is just a thought you've thought a million times. The body essentially becomes the mind. Those memorized feelings limit us to recreating the past. Every day is like the last until one breaks the addiction . I also love the movie "Groundhog Day" lol! So many lessons in that.
    Sita, tgirl, TrustIt and 2 others like this.
  16. Kozas

    Kozas Well known member

    Thanks. I don't expect linear results, to be honest I don't expect anything. Although, no wait, I know that at least I will give TMS a serious go, so I will not blame myself that I was always on the fence about TMS. I'm not a religious person, but my mother has habit of saying somethimes when planning that it's all God willing. In my case - I will be consistent and serious about it, and the rest is not in my hands.
    RogueWave likes this.
  17. RogueWave

    RogueWave Well known member

    Well said, and a great attitude going in to this next phase.

    A few of us were mentioning Dispenza before, and I follow his IG page because he posts patient healings on there. It’s great for inspiration, even if you don’t use his methods. This is the most recent one, and it’s only 7 minutes long. She talks about trying for a couple years without any significant change, then gained a new understanding which resulted in her healing. The detail she includes on the process is great. Hugely helpful if anyone is interested:

    https://www.instagram.com/tv/CLwnHhkBaJc/?igshid=1g2mokp5m25cp (Login • Instagram)
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  18. tgirl

    tgirl Well known member

    Thanks RogueWave. I listened to the Instagram post and it was certainly encouraging. I’m just wondering what your takeaway from it was other than letting go and meditating, as she did. Do you think she followed a specific regimen (Dispenza’s) or do you feel any type of meditation and letting go process would work?
  19. RogueWave

    RogueWave Well known member

    I do. Much like weight loss, as long as the approach is taken on with sincerity and as a long-term endeavor vs a quick fix. Abraham Low has an entire page on this in his book. He talks about magazine ads touting ‘faster’ ways to everything (keep in mind he noticed this in the 30s!), and how this was incredibly concerning for him. He is very clear that mastery of anything is not a quick process, and that quick results shouldn’t be expected. There are no real shortcuts, although some people naturally progress faster than others.

    Many different approaches can work....Different door, same room :).

    It is interesting though that as soon as she stopped focusing on healing so much, and put the focus on her daily state of being, that her healing occurred. Food for thought
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
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  20. miffybunny

    miffybunny Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi @tgirl,

    She probably followed his meditations and attended his workshops but honestly that's all marketing. It doesn't matter what modalities you use (or how you meditate or if you meditate), it's just finding a way to calm down and let go. I actually tried one of his meditations ( on space) and couldn't get into it but then again, I hate meditating so that's just me lol!
    Sita, RogueWave and tgirl like this.

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