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4 point approach to endless doubt looping

BloodMoon

Beloved Grand Eagle
A simple 4 point approach to endless doubt looping

(Stop chasing certainty—start changing the pattern)

Goal: reduce fear and analysis loops, not achieve certainty

1. Notice the pattern

A familiar doubt appears (e.g. “is this structural or mind-body?”)
  • → Notice the pull to analyse, check, or get certainty (this is assuming that, as this Wiki and forum require, you have been medically checked out)
  • → Recognise: this is a recurring mental loop, not a new problem to solve
  • → No need to answer it

2. Pause engagement

Do not follow the usual chain:

Checking symptoms or testing the body
This includes mental checking as well as physical checking
Googling or researching
Trying to “figure it out” mentally
  • → Gently label it: “this is the loop”
  • → Then stop engaging, even if the urge is still there

3. Allow uncertainty (and the feeling of it)
  • → Let uncertainty be present without trying to resolve it
  • → Allow the discomfort of not knowing, rather than thinking your way out
  • → No urgency to figure this out right now
  • → Certainty is not required in this moment

4. Return to life (without extremes)
  • → Shift attention back to something concrete and ordinary: daily tasks, movement, conversation, or simple activities
  • → Do something absorbing rather than something “perfect”
  • → Include a supportive practice, e.g. walking, grounding, slow breathing, yoga, tai chi, mindfulness, meditation something that anyone might find beneficial, not just those suffering with mind-body/TMS symptoms

Over time (long-term):

→ Repeatedly responding in this way gradually changes the pattern
→ Less time is spent in doubt, fear, checking, and analysis
→ The nervous system becomes less reactive to symptoms and uncertainty
→ Symptoms often become less central and less distressing

Recovery tends to come from consistent repetition of new responses—not from finally reaching certainty

Important:
You do not need to do this perfectly
Even partial disengagement counts
Each time you notice and step out of the loop, you are already changing it
 
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Thank you for your message. It’s a beautiful post, and it’s clear you’ve experienced this kind of issue firsthand.

Personally, I don't think my fear is about whether to structure things or not, but rather the fear of never fully recovering.

However, while in recent months I kept thinking, "Yes, I’m getting better, but never completely pain-free," this past Sunday I felt amazing and managed to walk 20,000 steps. Then, my mind started second-guessing it, wondering if it was just an illusion—perhaps the pain only disappeared because my knees had warmed up. But the truth is, unlike any other time, I had absolutely no pain while walking that much, nor did I feel any after I stopped. Nothing. Just some minor discomfort; I’d say I was 95% pain-free.

Yet, it’s precisely during these peaks that experiencing pain again or feeling down triggers my anxiety, throwing me right back to square one. It’s these ups and downs that ruin my mood and cloud how I view the future.

I experience this with even greater anxiety and tension when I have a nice experience coming up (like a trip, for example), and I get terrified that I won't be able to handle it.

I know the theory, but living through these highs and lows is incredibly hard. Besides, the pain is so searing and burning in both knees that it’s difficult to believe it could ever get better. You just start wondering if you overdid it.

I prefer keeping a steady pace and seeing my pain and emotions slowly improve, rather than tasting paradise only to be thrown back into hell.

Maybe taking things gradually is also a way to prevent all of this?
 
@Giofe86
I understand why the ups and downs feel so destabilising.

But that 95% pain-free experience didn’t come out of nowhere—it says something important about what’s possible for you.

20,000 steps with no real pain during or after isn’t something your knees could fake just because they were “warmed up”.
That’s a really meaningful signal, even if your mind tries to question it afterwards.

I know it’s not easy to hold onto that when you’re in a flare, but those moments are still evidence your system can change. My advice is to put them on an evidence sheet and remind yourself of them frequently. Think about the 'ups' more than the 'downs'.

It’s interesting how a flaring of symptoms shows up right after a really good day—as if the brain is trying to make sense of something that doesn’t fit its usual pattern... After the 20,000 steps your brain went, “Wait, was that actually safe?”
I prefer keeping a steady pace and seeing my pain and emotions slowly improve, rather than tasting paradise only to be thrown back into hell.

Maybe taking things gradually is also a way to prevent all of this?
With my own recovery thus far, I’ve found that taking things steadily and gradually increasing what I do can help me “fly under the radar” with my brain. My brain is less likely to interpret things as 'dangerous' that way. So something like consistently doing fewer steps than 20,000 and building up slowly might prove more manageable.

One thing I’m still learning myself is to let the good moments just be good moments, without analysing them too much or trying to “figure out” why they happened. That tendency to check and second-guess can sometimes bring the tension back in. Even gently leaning into enjoyment in those moments seems to help my system settle more.

I’ve also found that when movement is part of normal, everyday activities rather than something I’m “testing” or feel that I 'should' do, my system tends to stay calmer.
 
Reading your message, I understand how we all face the same problems. But understanding what we have in common is part of the process and the solution to the problem.

It seems impossible to imagine that on Sunday I was fine, and yet for three days now I've felt burning and stiffness. It's natural to think it's a limitation, that I can't do certain things. But the beautiful thing is that I still want to live, without being obsessed and anxious like before. I prefer daily life and balance to the idea of demanding trips, at least until I take them, and then I'm happy about it.
 
Personally, I don't think my fear is about whether to structure things or not, but rather the fear of never fully recovering.

Hi!

I appreciate what you mean here in terms of not consciously fearing it is structural, but I see a contradiction between what you consciously think and what beliefs you are entertaining. I'm a strong believer in the fact that we need to line up our thoughts and behaviours as best as possible with the belief in the TMS diagnosis, otherwise our subconscious brain won't believe us.

perhaps the pain only disappeared because my knees had warmed up.

You just start wondering if you overdid it.

These two beliefs and the entertaining of these thoughts are sending mixed messages to the brain, as the only way that these would be relevant when it comes to your pain is if you had a structural issue. It's confusing to the subconscious brain because on the one hand you're telling it that you believe in the TMS diagnosis, but then entertaining these thoughts say otherwise.

@BloodMoon is spot on with the evidence list - I'm not saying that those thoughts (around whether it was due to warm-up or because you overdid it) will stop coming to you straight away - but the more you combat them (dismiss them) when they do come with your evidence, the less you'll entertain them and as such the less they will come (until they won't even cross your mind). You'll have so much evidence and it will be so strong that eventually you'll laugh at these notions. Walking 20,000 steps 95% pain free is fantastic evidence, and you'll only build more as you go on this journey :)
 
Hi!

I appreciate what you mean here in terms of not consciously fearing it is structural, but I see a contradiction between what you consciously think and what beliefs you are entertaining. I'm a strong believer in the fact that we need to line up our thoughts and behaviours as best as possible with the belief in the TMS diagnosis, otherwise our subconscious brain won't believe us.





These two beliefs and the entertaining of these thoughts are sending mixed messages to the brain, as the only way that these would be relevant when it comes to your pain is if you had a structural issue. It's confusing to the subconscious brain because on the one hand you're telling it that you believe in the TMS diagnosis, but then entertaining these thoughts say otherwise.

@BloodMoon is spot on with the evidence list - I'm not saying that those thoughts (around whether it was due to warm-up or because you overdid it) will stop coming to you straight away - but the more you combat them (dismiss them) when they do come with your evidence, the less you'll entertain them and as such the less they will come (until they won't even cross your mind). You'll have so much evidence and it will be so strong that eventually you'll laugh at these notions. Walking 20,000 steps 95% pain free is fantastic evidence, and you'll only build more as you go on this journey :)

Thanks for your reply. But it's also true that getting back into the swing of things in the morning is never fun, though things usually go better after a nice walk. Since I'm a freelancer working solo, I always start my day by taking a walk downtown with my wife, leaving our little girl with her grandmother, before diving into my e-commerce optimization and SEO work
 
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