Joe Dispenza and Ramtha's School of Enlightenment

I keep several Amazon wish lists including one for mind/body type books. I frequently scan my lists waiting for books to drop in price before purchasing them for my Kindle. Today I noticed the price for How Your Mind Can Heal Your Body by David R Hamilton had dropped. Before clicking 'buy now' I check that I really want the book. It sounded okay, dealing with visualisation, placebo effect and so forth. Then I saw the word quantum and decided to steer clear. During the Bernie Madoff fiasco I heard an interview with an accountant. He had declined to invest in Madoff's scheme because he didn't understand how it would actually work. He never invested in anything he couldn't comprehend. I still don't understand what quantum is. I'm not a science-y person and never took a physics class. Thanks for trying to explain though @Forest! The book is no longer on my list.

 

I discovered Joe Dispenza's book "Overcoming The Habit of Being Yourself" and at first was very hopeful and impressed with the material. And I still do agree with most of the material in the book. However after about half way through the book I discovered from other research and background searching on Joe, that he had an extensive history with Ramtha and J.Z. Knight. Now I won't consider anything he has too say as valid because of his association with RSE. I have no respect for anyone in past association with J.Z. Knight. The other issues that have turned me against Dispenza's teachings are found in this short You Tube video which can be viewed at the following link:



Before I came across this video, I was already getting pretty annoyed at the fact that all Dispenza's work and so called healings were all centered around people with physical illnesses such as cancer and the multitude of other illnesses. I have struggled most of my life with severe depression, hatred, rage, and anger issues toward women and rejection which turned into a major mental disorder. So his refusal to even address the mental health problems was a big red flag for me. I became resentful at his apparent refusal or ignorance of mental health problems which cause all physical illnesses to begin with.

This video link is an interview with Dispenza where the host asks Dispenza point blank on how to deal and treat people with sadness and depression. And you ought to here his reply. He stumbles and totally botches the reply. He blatantly blames the sufferer of depression for his their own suffering and refuses to show any compassion or empathy towards people with what I consider "the only real problem", which is mental illness and emotional suffering. He rambles on for about 3 minutes and you can tell he is agitated and uncomfortable with the question asked of him. I have lost all respect for him and his work as a result. He shows great compassion towards those with cancer and other diseases, but shows disdain and blame towards those with mental health problems.

I have now learned that he is no different than all the other Hay House teachers and authors who only help people who are already stable emotionally, financially, and other wise. In order to benefit from anything Dispenza teaches, you have to want to get better or believe you can get better and have enough self love and self esteem necessary to begin the work. At the heart of Dispenza's "wisdom" is blame and guilt for the most part. If I had known ahead of time about his "Ramtha" connection, I never would have read his book.

 

I think that's because Dr Joe knows in his bones that people with these traits are easy to process for monetary gain. Sure, he repeats a lot of truisms gleaned from other healers and mystics, but his primary purpose is making a buck off the gullible; that is, victimizing them.

 

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I posted the following comments below about 3 days ago to a You Tube video featuring Dr. Joe claiming he healed someone with severe depression. I am surprised it has not been taken down yet. I wanted to get you all's opinion to see if you think I may have put myself in legal jeopardy in any way regarding my comments. Also I am well aware I may offend some of you here on this sight who have physical illnesses because I was pretty frank about the way I feel towards Dr. Joe. I am not looking to make anymore enemies especially with you people on tmswiki. I have enough enemies already. I will gladly remove this post if anyone is offended. Below is the comment I shared on you tube:
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For the past several weeks I feel a great deal of anger towards Dr. Dispenza and will not consider anything he has to say as valid teaching, even after I found great hope in recently reading his book: “Breaking The Habit of Being Yourself.”. At the time I was reading that book I was not aware of what I know now. And even though I totally agree with the material in the book I just mentioned, I will not use it or allow myself to endorse anything Dr. Dispenza teaches. The first red flag that came up for me is that 99% or more of Dr. Dispenza’s testimonials all center around those with Cancer and the multitude of never ending physical conditions or bodily injuries. He does not deal with mental illness, depression, sadness, hatred, resentment, and those who suffer with these conditions such as myself. His primary focus is on the well to do financially and only those with physical maladies. I finally did find one short video of Dr. Dispenza on a Canadian radio talk show where he is asked point blank on how to help those who suffer from sadness and depression. You can tell he is caught off guard and nervous and even angry for being asked such as question. Here is the link below. It lasts about 4 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6P7XC_4i3rI&t=9s&list=FL-gL1UxhPOXRxUiPAn0JARQ&index=3

After listening to this video several weeks ago, I am still angry and resentful at what I heard and refuse to take anything serious he Dr. Dispenza has to say and have lost all the hope I had that his teachings may finally be the answer and help I have needed for over 40 years. In this video Dr. Dispenza talks down and is very negative towards those with depression and mental health issues. He actually blames and criticizes those who suffer and shows no compassion or understanding and actually blames the person for their suffering. I am very offended and upset by this statement he made: “Hmmm, Well I would say to them that these emotions have a very significant effect on their bodies, and the only person they are actually hurting when they live by these emotions are themselves.” No Dr. Dispenza, you are wrong. I bet the victims of the Sandy Hook Elementary massacre and their families disagree. I bet the victims of the Orlando, FL night club massacre of 50 people from an act of depression and rage would disagree with you to. And I bet the families and victims of the shooter at the movie theatre in Colorado where 12 died would also not agree with you as would the victims of Elliot Rodgers who killed 6 in California in 2014. No Dr. Dispenza, you are an enemy to those who suffer with depression and sadness. And those of us who do suffer with this hurt not only ourselves but everyone around else, maybe not to the extreme such as Adam Lanza or Ted Bundy. Dr. Dispenza, you are no friend to the mentally ill. You are insensitive and unkind and I won’t consider anything you have to say anymore. The only people that Dr. Dispenza favors are the those with cancer and other physical illnesses. That is where the “Money” is after all. Everyone who has cancer or other physical illnesses IS MENTALLY ILL. Every cancer or disease that people attract first started in their minds from not being real with who they really are. And then because there are so many people with these physical maladies, they receive sympathy and compassion from everyone and get treated like innocent victims who played no part in getting cancer. Dr. Dispenza, would never say the things you said regarding those with depression and sadness to someone on their death bed from cancer. You would never accuse them or tell them that they were responsible for their illness, and guess what, THEY ARE. I don’t believe for a second you played any beneficial part in this woman’s so called recovery as you exhibit her on the stage. You cannot even speak her language or her yours. I don’t believe for a moment that this woman is cured because of anything you did for her. Those who suffer with sadness and depression have no one to turn to and the world in general wants nothing to do with those of us who suffer in this way. Yet those with physical illnesses get all the attention, money, and resources directed towards them and their recovery. The only real illness IS MENTAL ILLNESS and this where a teacher such as Dr. Dispenza should be devoting almost all of his effort towards alleviating suffering in this area. He will never do so however because he has never been there himself and so he will do what all Hay House teachers do and sell out to the Cancer crowd. The other thing about Dr. Dispenza I was not aware of during the time I was reading his book: “Breaking The Habit of Being Yourself” is his 16 year history of involvement with Ramtha, a non physical being allegedly channeled by J.Z. Knight. If I had heard any mention of Dr. Dispenza’s involvement in RSE (Ramtha’s School of Enlightenment) I would have never paid any attention to Dr. Dispenza. Any reputable person knows that J.Z. Knight is the biggest New Age Fraud and scammer to ever come forth. Ramtha claims he is a 60,000 year old warrier who only lived one life time on Earth. Ramtha teaches that ‘HE SLAUGHTERED HIS WAY TO ELIGHTENMENT.” J.Z. Knight has been exposed countless times for her borderline personality behavior and other bizarre behavior and addictions over the years. She has amassed a fortune from lies and deceit. Yet Dr. Dispenza claims he could not have written his books without the teachings he learned through J.Z. Knight and Ramtha. This alone should be enough to denounce him as a reputable teacher. Dr. Dispenza puts on this gentle and soft spoken persona of being a nice guy. Yet “Ramtha” is this get in your face and uses an aggressive almost threatening manner when coming forth. In closing: The only people that Dr. Dispenza may benefit are only those who are emotionally and financially stable. Only the well do high functioning people who have relationships, money, and already established well being in their life. Dr. Dispenza’s work is useless for the depressed, the forgotten, the traumatized, the lonely, the suicidal, and the hopeless. I feel so disappointed in this man and to find another useless teacher, at least for me anyway.

 

Hi all,


This being my first post I would like to introduce myself and how I came upon the site. While I have had my own experiences with pain (as I think almost every human being has), I came upon the site doing a routine search on JZ Knight & Ramtha.


I had a family member involved in Ramtha’s School Of Enlightenment [RSE] for over 10 years. During this time they were estranged from me. That part of time in my life was a particularly emotionally painful one for me and one in which I came to terms with several different times in several different ways. The way in which I conducted myself towards my family member had several unintended consequences, some favorable and others not.


While I hesitate to call myself an expert in the area of RSE, I certainly have done much research over the last 20 years, interviewed those who were former and current students at RSE as well as scientists and physicists in order to try and unravel the pseudo science taught there. I have been brought to court by the organization, have written about my views and have been around since the inception of the Enlighten me Free website founded by my friend and former student David McCarthy whom in his dedication to bringing the truth to light suffered greatly in doing so, emotionally, physically, and financially.


I am glad to see that his diligence and efforts have been useful to those who are discovering the roots of Joe Dispenza’s knowledge, philosophy, and mindset.

I do not normally spend a lot of time writing on websites. However, since I stumbled across yours I would like to put my two cents in (may seem more like $1,000 !)

[Moderator's note: some text here has been removed and moved into another thread. Click here to read the full post.]

 

Can somebody please explain to me how so many people have recovered from their health issues using Dr Joe's work if he is such a quack. Are all those testimonial videos on YouTube done by paid actors. Could it be that these people haven't healed but just their perception of their illness has changed? Doed it really matter what his background is if people actually see real tangible change? IMO he has uncovered the mind body connection for people to see results, and that's all that matters.

 

And I assume you were there in person and witnessed all these healings? You knew all these people before they were sick? You monitored them getting well and recovering? Yes, it matters very much what his background is. J.Z. Knight and Ramtha never healed anyone and destroyed lives and J.Z. has been proven a liar and an unethical being time after time. She uses threats and intimidation to get and force her will on others. Dr. Dispenza was a part of RSE for several years. The Apple never falls far from the tree. The very fact that all Dispenza focuses on is physical illness and totally ignores the real illness which is always mental illness, makes him a fraud. Bottom line: A person cannot have a past or be associated with Ramtha and then be taken seriously. I suspect you are an RSE puppet trying to insert your point of view without drawing attack and criticism to yourself.

 

I absolutely condemn any cult or religious doctrine. A lot of what repulses me about Joe Dispenza is when he talks about the divine. I immediately turn off. But along with this tomfoolery comes a man who has a deep understanding of the placebo effect and how it can impact your health. I truly believe in the power of belief and how it can transform our health, including physical and mental. He focuses of BOTH physical and mental illness. You obviously haven't done your homework.

Would you ever listen to an orthodox rabbi who happens to have a lot of scientific knowledge on the mind body connection, regardless of his strong misguided religious beliefs? Maybe Dr. Joe is misguided in a lot of his past beliefs, but that doesn't negate ALL of this very useful wisdom.

I just find it extremely hard to believe that all of these people who are recovering from real tangible illnesses whether it be mental or physical using Dr. Joe's work to be delusional. I think these people who have the most profound results have learned how to harness the placebo effect to their benefit. I am currently dealing with a very serious illness myself and am looking forward to leaning how to apply his work to my own situation.

 

Can you please explain what you mean by : "...strong misguided religious beliefs?".

 

Which of the TEN COMMANDMENTS do you condemn?

 

None of this impress me. Just have to open FB to see how easily people can get swayed and conditioned.

 

You may want to explore Dr. Sarno's TMS theory, it will get you to the same place for only the price of a book.

 

Nyckid

I think you need to be careful with some of the things you are saying. You condemn any religious doctrine, rabbis with misguided beliefs etc.?

I am not religious, but I also don't agree with this new form of atheistic bigotry. Many of the good foundations of our culture and your own belief system are based on those religious principles. To say someone has misguided beliefs because they don't align with yours is just arrogant and narrow minded.

As for Joe dipenza, I agree that anyone should have a chance at a new start and not be judged on their past only. I never understood the terms 'murderer' or 'rapist' as a label for a person for life, if they have made a huge mistake. (Not that I condone such acts). But people change, beyond recognition, I have myself.

That said, I read Joe dipenzas book and lots of it just didn't add up, many dubious stories of his own healing and others, without anything to back it up. Of course it's worth being cautious with someone who has been involved with something like RME! That woman is quite obviously not in her right mind, just watch any YouTube video!

I do believe people get results from working with Joe dipenza, so that's good. They believe in him, so in a sense I think it's the placebo effect.

But I myself am suspicious of his motives and authenticity. So I wouldn't go near any of his stuff.

 

I'm sorry if I offended any of you. I understand some of you may hold these beliefs, and maybe I should've chosen my words more wisely, or perhaps it further validates my point. IMO these religious doctrines were created during times that we did not know or understand much about how the universe works, and yet we still abide by them as if it's ultimate law. That is what I meant by misguided. A rabbi or a priest can go about his whole life deeply engraining himself with these beliefs that can be debunked continuously, and yet we will hesitate to call them out on it because we feel that these beliefs provide "a strong foundation" for our culture. Perhaps we should reevaluate how we approach this problem.

That being said, we shouldn't disregard everything Dr. Joe has to say just because of his past dealings with any cult. It certainly makes him less credible, but his most important arguments are based on the fact that our brains and bodies can change with the power of belief. Do you disagree with that? We have to be able to filter out the good from the bad. It's not all black and white.

 

I was not going to comment about this, but since you want to double down on things that you are showing not to know, I will. You are completely right about something. What you are saying is just your opinion, nothing else, nothing more. I been studying all these for years and I am a science guy, and what science if finding more and more each day, is that nothing that they seem to understand is right. What we have is scientism, not science. ALL that you think is correct about science is based on pure mathematical models, that are hammered to accommodate our ideas, and not the correct way, that would be to fit our mathematical models to the observable universe. The answers we get about that is that the universal real models are "too complicated" and that our mathematics have not reached the point of following a real model. No one have ever seen and electron, let me say it again, there is no visual evidence of an electron in our present physics, just a mathematical model. There are other emerging theories that are slapping our stablished old science each and every day, and our scientism religion does not allow them to come forward because the dogma can not be refuted. Real science should be questioning itself ALL the time, and it does not happen anymore. We have basically given a system of metrics that work just good enough to keep us where they want and nothing more. Do you really think that the patent system protects inventors??Why do you think that anything revolutionary today in energy is automatically shunned in the name of " national security"?? I am just giving you dome ideas to think about, but the scope of what I really know would not be able to be discussed in this pages. Regarding what you think is misguided religion, even if I had no secular or religious knowledge, I would always pay attention to a book that basically have prophesies that are being fulfilled each and every day. Some of the things that have become reality and are described are the 4 kingdoms in the book of Daniel, the born of Jesus and His cruxificion, the becoming of the EU common market and the UN as a world order, the migration of the arabs right now all thru Europe, etc. For someone to just come here and say that others are misguided, purely by opinion, and then not bringing any facts or background to the conversation is kind of insulting, although I normally just take this kind of comments as coming from someone who is ignorant about the data that is out there. If anything have been proven in society is that getting farther away from the strong foundation these teaching provide is what have us in the mess we are. A book that his golden rule is to love God with all your hearth and love all humanity as you would love yourself, is a pretty good foundation to me. When you love everyone else, there is nothing wrong that you could do to others. I really hope you get more into facts and less into your opinion, or at least keep it to yourself before talking and showing how much you ignore about both science and religion.

 

I did not mean to get into a debacle about religion with you folks on this forum. I was trying to make a point that I do not condone any cult that Dr. Joe is part of, and somehow wanted to exhibit my disapproval by comdeming religion. I understand that this will trigger a lot of people on any website. It was of bad taste for me to do so.

The truth is I have a very serious physical illness right now and I don't know how much longer I have left. What do you suppose a person like me would immmediately do? Seeking out Gods help is the intuitive thing to do, and yet I feel completely betrayed. It's comforting to know that the more I pray and hope, the better it'll get. But what would happen if you not only get worse, but are blamed for your illness, lose your family, friends, and everything you love. Then you start to realize that Religion is comforting, but has no basis in reality. If there was no pain, death, and suffering in the world, there would be no need for religion. It was created to accommodate our fears.

I have lost hope, but Dr. Joe is helping me regain it..

And the last thing I wanna be doing right now is getting into an argument with strangers online, but this has been my experience.

 

Sorry to hear about your illness, what condition do you have?

Are you seeing Dr. Joe, if so how much is it costing you?

 

I started doing Dr. Joes meditations last year and then attended his workshop for about $500. IMO going to the workshop isn't all that necessary. Just read his Placebo book and start practicing visualization. I took a break from doing his work but I am going to jump right into this asap. I just have a very hard time meditating currently.

But I truly feel that the essence of what he is saying is so applicable to anyone struggling. I also really recommend the book "Cure" by Jo Marchant. It also delves deeply into the placebo effect and the power of belief in healing.

 

Thanks for your reply, you did not answer what your condition is and I won't badger you about it. My reason for asking is that this is the TMS Wiki, and it deals with healing many, many, conditions and yours may be one of them. I don't know Joe Dispenza, but you may get the same benefit from buying a TMS book for a penny and $3.99 S&H, used from Amazon, that you are paying $500 for, so far, and maybe more $$$ in the future. If you don't want to divulge what your condition is, that's your right, most people come here with a stated mindbody condition that they are hoping to cure after they've tried everything from A to Z. There are thousands of testimonials for the curing abilities of TMS/psychosomatic thinking. Maybe yours can be helped by Dr. Sarno's TMS, which is altruistic, and doesn't have a lot of baggage of cultism following it around. You may want to explore TMS if your condition is of mindbody origin and save a lot of money and argumentation having to defend Dr. Joe.

 

Hi nyc,
For your first question and I will leave out addressing "...if he's such a quack".

So many? How many? Is it more then 50% of all treated, or, more like 33% which would be within the realm of a placebo effect. We do not know how many have recovered NOT using Dr. Joes methods.

As you can see without the necessary data points it is difficult to come close to an appropriate answer.

Some possible explanations might be;
People got better spontaneously.
Their belief was of a degree in which produced a placebo effect.
They are deluding themselves and just in denial of their problems.
It could be as you stated that they have not healed, only changed their perceptions of reality.

"Doed it really matter what his background is if people actually see real tangible change? IMO he has uncovered the mind body connection for people to see results, and that's all that matters."

Yes, it does matter. That is, if one does not subscribe to an "ends justify the means" philosophy.

Why if there are similar programs to his by licensed or peer recognized expertise in the subject at little or no cost should someone be kept from knowing of and making use of their existence?

One also needs to understand, not only was he a member of the RSE group, but he held the title of "teacher" at RSE. He participated in the many questionable behaviors of the group. He attributes his knowledge base as being from the group.

He is only now not connected to the organization because there is no room for 2 cult leaders.

His credentials are of a chiropractor, not a neuroscientist.

I know Neuroscientists and I know Joe Dispenza, and he is no neuroscientist.

I have questioned his claims, was told that there was medical documentation to back it up and that he would produce it and after 6 months of follow up it turned out to be a bald face lie.

However, none of the other people at the seminar I went to heard my question to him because I had approached him privately as opposed to outing him in front of everyone. They did hear testimonials from others who had produce "outrageous" events in their lives from making gold coins appear in ones hands to recovering eyesight.

He had claimed that someone had grown new permanent teeth, someone had complete remission from cancer, and someone else had healed a broken arm in 6 hours.

As it turned out, just because he said so does not make it so.

However, he can be an influential speaker, especially to those who are at the end of the road as far as dealing with their problems, as you said he gives hope where others may not.

Lets be clear about this though. He does not GIVE hope. He SELLS hope. For myself hope is not a commodity to be bargained with.

"I just find it extremely hard to believe that all of these people who are recovering from real tangible illnesses whether it be mental or physical using Dr. Joe's work to be delusional. I think these people who have the most profound results have learned how to harness the placebo effect to their benefit. I am currently dealing with a very serious illness myself and am looking forward to leaning how to apply his work to my own situation."

I don't find it unusual that you find it hard to believe, similar to believing all Mexicans are illegals or that all Muslims are terrorists etc. I also can see that you obviously think that it is a possibility to "harness" the placebo effect. That has been proven to be quite elusive because ones knowledge of the placebo works against the placebo effect though there has been some gaining ground.

NYC, there is much written about the placebo effect going way back to before it was called a placebo effect, but I would assure you , you will gain a much greater understanding reading a variety of writers from varying disciplines who are far more knowledgable then Joe Dispenza.

"It certainly makes him less credible, but his most important arguments are based on the fact that our brains and bodies can change with the power of belief. Do you disagree with that?"

If he is making that argument he has created one where none is needed. It is well established that that occurs. However, his contention that this ability can be harnessed, controlled at will by one is an expectation that is while conceivable, unattainable for virtually everyone.

Even if it were so, that one could give everything up, family, friends, everyday pleasures (yes, that includes sex), and study diligently and attain this ability; without friends , family etc its value diminishes greatly.

"The truth is I have a very serious physical illness right now and I don't know how much longer I have left. What do you suppose a person like me would immmediately do? Seeking out Gods help is the intuitive thing to do, and yet I feel completely betrayed. It's comforting to know that the more I pray and hope, the better it'll get. But what would happen if you not only get worse, but are blamed for your illness, lose your family, friends, and everything you love. Then you start to realize that Religion is comforting, but has no basis in reality. If there was no pain, death, and suffering in the world, there would be no need for religion. It was created to accommodate our fears."

I am an Agnostic, I would not presume to explain the existence of a supernatural being, that does not mean there is none. I have an intuitive understanding of the fabric of the universe and that each thread is an important part of the whole.

It sounds like you may have a terminal illness, I am sorry that you have to learn how to cope with it but you may gain some insight here from those suffering with continuous problems and the variety of ways in which each person handles it.

I would like to suggest that you might instead of trying to find a "cure", work on what is going on for you and how you might be able to effect it, double down on your efforts, fight it tooth and nail when you can and accept and recoup when you can't. I can see that your interest in Dispenza is a part of your doubling down, I would just say from experience that it is not a good bet and I would not even put it in the longshot category.

Rather then learning to "cure" yourself, if you can learn how to be flexible in your thinking, not look to have all of your questions answered, but keep asking them it will be very helpful for you in dealing with any life changing situation.

It seems obvious you have been dissilusioned with religion, but your last statement does not reflect the facts.

"Then you start to realize that Religion is comforting, but has no basis in reality. If there was no pain, death, and suffering in the world, there would be no need for religion. It was created to accommodate our fears."

Yes, perhaps religion was created to accommodate our fears, but also our hopes and dreams of the future, a series of guideposts to navigate the human condition. That aspect cannot be left out.

Of course religion has a firm basis in reality. If there were no pain, death, suffering in the world, there would be no reality.

In closing, I understand that you are sincerely looking to better your situation, that's great!

Look at it this way, if you came upon a beautiful mountain lake, on a hot summer afternoon and was about to jump in then saw a sign that said "Swim at your own risk, toxic clean up site" and yet you saw people swimming in it and they came out and said they have swam there for a while and they see nothing wrong with it. Then, you speak to some of the other people in the area and you hear about children who have died, developed strange diseases, adults also. Would you go in? I would think not, you would look for a lake without the sign if you really needed to swim that bad.

I know many in RSE who have died following the program laid out by JZ Knight and Dispenza he does too, but he does not speak of it. Not only did these people die and some when it was not necessary that they did. They entered RSE wealthy and died in poverty.

This is not something you need to experience for yourself.

I am back in NYC, if you are in the city and would like some more in depth info I would be more then happy to meet with you. Just shoot me a PM
All the best!