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Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by SFscribe, Dec 23, 2017.

  1. SFscribe

    SFscribe Peer Supporter

    Hi -

    I've posted on this forum before regarding my lower back pain (TMS, resolved completely) and plantar facsitis (also TMS, resolved completely). I am now suffering from knee pain after a kind of confusing set of events that are making me very confused as to if it's a real physical thing or TMS.

    Playing soccer about 6 weeks ago, a got tackled in a strange way that twisted my knee. I felt a sharp pain for a split second during the tackle but afterwards I could keep playing and then I just felt stiffness in the knee and for the next few weeks that's all there was. Since I wasn't in pain, just stiff, and still had strength and motion flexibility in my knee, I kept playing. It never really got better but also never got worse. Then, two weeks ago, I played soccer twice in the same day (once in the morning and once at night) -- nothing happened during the games, but that night I felt pain and it started to swell a lot. I woke up the next morning and it was really swollen. I went to get it checked by a knee doctor, who immediately ruled out MCL or ACL tear, since I could walk, but recommended an MRI to see if there was a miniscus tear. The MRI shows no minisucs tear but did show a "mild MCL sprain" and "patellofemoral arthrosis". The doctor said it would take 4 to 6 weeks to recover and recommended physical therapy, but he didn't seem to be very clear if the recovery was needed more from the mild sprain or the patellofemoral arthrosis, and thinking about the chain of events more, I'm skeptical. Can a "mild sprain" even be seen on an MRI? Also - this happened right as my plantar fascitis was disappearing -- so it seems linked -- a typical TMS movement from one part of the body to another.

    Any thoughts/insight would be much appreciated.


  2. MindBodyPT

    MindBodyPT Beloved Grand Eagle

    Hi Mark,

    In regards to your knee pain and MRI- it's certainly possible you had a minor sprain of the MCL in which case your doctor was right, it should heal up within a few weeks. A mild sprain wouldn't show up on imaging specifically other than some inflammation being present without obvious injury, that's probably how the diagnosis was made. A mild sprain could occur without much pain...so it's possible you did sprain it but had more TMS-like pain that didn't start until a couple weeks later. To be safe, just take it easy for now and ease back into activity as recommended by the doc. As a PT, I can tell you that this is pretty minor and you wouldn't need a whole lot of PT to heal.

    Patellofemoral arthrosis/arthritis is chronic, painless and certainly was there for a long time before the possible injury, most people have some forms of arthritis in their body seen on imaging after age 30, as says Sarno and all TMS docs.

    I know that's a complicated answer...the pain itself might be TMS, you might still be healing from a mild sprain, either way don't worry too much and it should clear up in a couple weeks tops! And don't worry about the arthritis.
    andy64tms likes this.
  3. SFscribe

    SFscribe Peer Supporter

    Thank you so much, MindBodyPT!! Excellent and thoughtful answer and that helps quite a lot. All the best.
    MindBodyPT likes this.
  4. andy64tms

    andy64tms Well known member

    Hi Mark,

    Here is what I wrote in 2012 on the TMS Help Forum

    Hope it helps

    1st Post
    I windsurf, kayak and swim. I get knocks bruises and scrapes all the time. They don’t normally hurt until after the activity and normally disappear overnight, but there are some exceptions. For instance I hurt my knee this year. The pain was intense and made me inactive for about 5 minutes. I had fallen with all my weight on top of the board. I continued even with the nagging pain, and my worst fears arose that this was possibly serious; you know ‘surgery’ or ‘doctors orders to rest’.

    So I went to Dr, Google and found excellent images and a perfect explanation for my problem: a minor tear of the medial collateral ligament on the inside of the knee, similar to a clipping injury in football. The suggested heal time was two to six weeks. The explanation was clear, so I bought a knee strap and continued windsurfing. The knee strap did nothing for support, but reminded me I should be careful.

    This season I repeated the same injury two more times, and even succumbed to taking a Tylenol PM one night. My windsurfing continued!

    Dr.Sarno in HBP says that “Pain from unaccustomed exercise is a good kind of ache, and normally goes within a day. The pain from TMS is always nasty and doesn’t go away very quickly.” I‘d like to add that some of my pains take much longer. Flesh and muscle pains are the quickest to go. My of my pains in ligaments, tendons and possibly nerves often take weeks as stated above.

    2nd post
    An example this summer I actually tore and damaged my MCL, even though the pain was from a real knock I treated it as TMS. Once I knew what the pain was I reduced its credibility like a lawyer would when questioning a defendant. (Pspa123 Thought you would like this analogy since you are a lawyer). My main fear at the time was have I got to go to hospital and loose time windsurfing.

    Answer is similar
    Mindbody, Mark, Happy Holidays
    Footnote: Perhaps "TMS pain is not always nasty" like I said previous. It could be low level and grinding.

    Last edited: Dec 24, 2017
  5. SFscribe

    SFscribe Peer Supporter

    Thanks, Andy. You make a really good point. The pain is nearly intense or constant enough to be TMS. Thanks so much for your input and Happy New Year :)

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