1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
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new long and awesome interview

Discussion in 'General Discussion Subforum' started by mbo, Nov 12, 2022.

  1. mbo

    mbo Well known member

  2. Benjiro

    Benjiro Peer Supporter

    “What you’re really speaking to, for me, is this idea that our pain, our chronic pain, is a signal. And if we can get to the root cause of what that signal is, the learnings we’re going to get from that will not only help our pain, but will help every other aspect of our life, as well.” (Chaterjee)

    “The pain is not the problem, it’s the solution. . . It’s the solution our brain has come up with to alert us to a problem. It’s a signal. It’s a message. And it’s a protector.” (Schubiner)

    “When the mind is ill at ease, the body suffers.” (Ovid)

    “Everyone loves to bash Dr. Sarno. He wasn’t right about every little detail, but Einstein wasn’t right about every little detail.” (Schubiner)

    “Imagine yourself moving with joy.”

    Schubiner talks about how mindfulness doesn’t work for chronic pain in studies because it doesn’t begin with reframing of pain. (~1:30:00)
    TG957, Cap'n Spanky and JanAtheCPA like this.
  3. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Thanks for this one in particular!

    I am equally sad for the Sarno bashers and for the Sarno purists. Rigid black & white thinking doesn't ever feel healthy to me, regardless of the subject, or which "side" someone is on. Physical, mental, emotional and relationship health flourish with an open mind.
    TG957, Cap'n Spanky and Cactusflower like this.
  4. mbo

    mbo Well known member

    IMHO Dr. Schubiner's approach is centered in "our fearful brain" (not in our conscious fear), whereas Dr. Sarno's approach focus on "our enraged inner/residual child" (not in our conscious anger). But the two approaches aren't mutually exclusive, in fact they are complementary: our brain could be very fearful of the perturbing/dangerous intentions from your enraged inner/residual child.
    Does it make sense?
    TG957, JanAtheCPA and Cap'n Spanky like this.
  5. Cactusflower

    Cactusflower Well known member

    Dr.Schubiner’s book ver much discusses anger and rage, and so do his courses teaching people to be tms coaches. I think he doesn’t focus on that with public speaking because that’s One reason why people reject Sarno’s theory. I sure did at first because I had no idea I was angry (at times). Schubiner tends to call it heartbreak or lump anger under emotions. I’ve also heard him say that in the last several years he’s seen s rise in sadness in his patients (more than anger). I agree, that tms theories don’t have to be mutually exclusive - and that’s the beauty of being more open minded as Jan mentions.
    Cap'n Spanky likes this.
  6. mbo

    mbo Well known member

  7. PainNoMore

    PainNoMore Peer Supporter

    outstanding interview. a must watch
  8. Ellen

    Ellen Beloved Grand Eagle

    This is wonderful! Thanks for posting. He touches on all the aspects of TMS recovery. He also explains why CBT or meditation alone doesn't cure chronic pain, because it is necessary to first have the knowledge and understanding of TMS theory.
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  9. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    I finally finished listening to the entire podcast, and I think that the value of this interview with Dr. Schubiner cannot be overstated. I plan to recommend it to all new members, because I swear, (and as @Ellen already said) I feel like he answers all of the questions that newcomers always have. In addition to the main focus, and many other related topics which I can't remember at the moment, he briefly mentions his early association with Dr. Sarno in addition to the comment already noted above, and also the phenomenon of the Sarno "book cure". He covers the use of medications, long Covid as a mindbody condition (with a case study from his own practice), and where journaling fits into recovery. He also explains the reasons for needing to clearly understand how and why your brain is keeping you in fear before you can apply recovery techniques - IOW, he confirms what we say here all the time: you need to "do the (emotional) work".

    Dr. Chatterjee is very cool and awesome - he's in the UK. His podcast is Feel Better Live More, along with a newsletter, the usual social media, and several books - all listed on his YouTube channel.

    Yes, the interview is very long - it's almost two hours of the most up-to-date knowledge and pure wisdom of Dr. Schu - for free. Worth much more than a couple of hours of your time.

    I recommend having your screen close by if you want to be able to quickly skip the many ads after the required 3 or 4 seconds. I listened over several sessions. And I will listen again. And I'm about to send it to a number of friends. Also, here is the podcast page instead of YT:
    How To Heal Chronic Pain with Dr Howard Schubiner - Dr Rangan Chatterjee (drchatterjee.com)

    Thank you, @mbo for this incredible find!

    Last edited: Nov 20, 2022
    Ellen and mbo like this.
  10. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    The reason my lifelong TMS started quickly escalating in 2011 was triggered by aging (turning 60) and that was definitely a combination of fear about, and rage against, mortality. Other emotions mixed in were related to isolation and abandonment, loss of freedom, and lack of meaning.

    In eleven years, I have never spent ANY time analyzing or worrying about perceived (and typically subtle) conflicts between the many mindbody practitioners doing this work. There's a ton of overlap in the words and context used - I just accept the ones that resonate for me, and I let others go, which will undoubtedly resonate for someone else. I do, however, frequently warn people against overanalysis. It's almost always just a distraction, and a way to avoid doing the emotional work while being convinced (by one's TMS brain) that something is being accomplished. I'm not saying this applies to you, just putting it out there if anyone else is reading this.
    TG957, mbo and rudybarron like this.
  11. mbo

    mbo Well known member

    brain-2.jpg Does that make sense?
  12. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    I see all the key words, so it probably does, but visual aids like this don't do anything for me. I find them time-consuming to analyze and ultimately not memorable - which just makes them a time-wasting distraction. The words of our teachers, written or spoken with compassion and accompanied by case studies, are what stick with me. And spending the time to do the emotional work is what leads to relief.
  13. TG957

    TG957 Beloved Grand Eagle

    Fantastic discussion! Thank you, all posters, for deepening my knowledge! My own two cents: each one of us is unique and has find the path that makes sense and works. We are lucky that nowadays so many roadmaps are available.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2022

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