1. Alan has completed the new Pain Recovery Program. To read or share it, use this updated link: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/painrecovery/
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Possibly not genuine:My Rheumatoid Arthritis is completely cleared up.

Discussion in 'Community Off Topic' started by Katie Scissor, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    That explains a lot, Timbercat! Trying for the quick-fix, one-size-fits-all cure that everyone wants - the magic pill. Which we all know does not exist when it comes to the unique complexities of each human brain.

    Here is what Ms. Scissor says in her other post (the one where she was completely cured of back pain in August): "Both Laura and her partner John have no qualifications whatsoever other than they have cured themselves of pain."

    Licensed therapists and other health professionals have an ethical awareness and responsibility that is developed through their education and ongoing training requirements (as a CPA, I go through similar ethics training, which is renewed for my license every three years, along with a total of 120 hours of continuing professional education).

    But life coaches, with no licensing or education or training requirements whatsoever, aren't exposed to the concept, and typically don't get it - which can lead them to use marketing tactics that simply aren't appropriate for this kind of work.
    plum likes this.
  2. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    Thank you all so much for helping to protect our community. Aside from the truth that healing is unique for each person, it is also true that many people here are vulnerable and suffer with long-standing boundary issues. In combination these two points risk leaving people wide open to opportunists. This is why it is important to question the veracity of the posts in question. As things stand they are red flags. I believe it serves and honours the legacy of Dr. Sarno to insist upon integrity in those who practice in his name. This is no small act of respect for the man we are all indebted to.

    It is an established fact that the success of therapy is contingent upon having a good relationship between client and therapist. An integral part of this is trust. The psychologists who write here such as @Alan Gordon LCSW and @Christie Uipi MSW, the developers of Curable @John Gribbin and @lauraseago and doctors like David Hanscom have nurtured our faith in their knowledge and understanding by being here. In fact John Gribbin made a post where he acknowledged his reticence to come forward initially because he was aware of how pushy that would seem.

    (http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/a-tms-app.16634/#post-88081 (A TMS app?))

    These small acts of awareness carry a huge weight because they display a consideration for the forum members and an awareness that many people here will have already invested much hope and money into various cures. This is especially true for people who have developed TMS in no small part due to the arrogant, selfish and brash people in their lives. It makes you super sensitive to any hint of similar roughshod behaviours. Thus learning to deal with these types is an aspect of healing, it should never, ever be a characeristic of therapy yet @Timbercat describes the approach as 'aggressive'. (On a personal level, I’m not happy with coaching as a TMS therapy. I defer to Jan’s points.)

    They may well be sincere and as@Gigalos says they do have the opportunity to come forward and clarify, with particular reference to the authenticity of these testimonials. I hope they do and I hope that we are wrong. It saddens me to consider the alternative.

    Any news?
    Lainey and JanAtheCPA like this.
  3. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    I spoke with their office, and in my opinion they are genuine TMS practitioners. They charge no more then any other TMS practitioner listed here, and less then some. Most who come here have spent small fortunes on a list of "cures" from A to Z. I posted evidence for their TMS cred and it was censored by the mods. I think the mods should do some minimal checking like I did before disparaging TMS practitioners--there are few enough of them on the planet. I've also talked in the past with other TMS practitioners who've told me they tried being listed here and were denied.
  4. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    Did they say anything about the testimonials posted here? I think the main concern is whether they are genuine.
  5. Tennis Tom

    Tennis Tom Beloved Grand Eagle

    I invited them here to face the inquisition. If anyone wants to check them out it's easy enough, look up "PAIN CURE CLINIC" in Boulder, Colorado, they have a phone contact and you can talk to them. Personally, I don't find having a lot of impressive sounding post-grad degrees and letters after one's name guarantees TMS knowledge, some of the best TMS proponents are past sufferers who found the light, wrote a book and perhaps became practitioners--do the degrees matter?--maybe to get insurance if you get sued. I saw the same un-welcome for SteveO and Nicole Sacks when they announced their TMS books over at the "other" TMS site--I'm willing to keep an open mind and give them a chance.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2017
  6. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    I appreciate the efforts you've made Tom. I remember the rough ride both SteveO and Nicole received at the other place. I'm not sure but I may have been a newbie when SteveO joined but I certainly remember both you and I supporting Nicole, so I 100% understand where you are coming from.

    I also totally get your points about accreditation. There are many well-intentioned but essentially useless people in my past. The Wounded Healer is a powerful force for the good and goes a long way towards the cultivation of compassion and empathy so essential in any therapeutic endeavour. Any preferences I state are entirely personal and grounded in my need and fondness for certain things. To each their own and God Bless that.

    I think all anyone here wants is clarity on the source of those posts. Maybe the mods can check IP addresses or other such tech wizardry...

    I'm happy to keep an open mind and think it's in the best interests of the clinic to know that strange posts are being made that link back to them. They wouldn't even need post on the forum itself but rather contact @Forest or one of the mods directly. Assuming they are genuine it would be awful for them to lose credibility due to a handful of posts. It's just the fact that it looks like hamfisted marketing that has bothered people.
    Tennis Tom likes this.
  7. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Here's the bottom line:

    The reviews are scripted, and when you compare them side-by-side, they are obviously not authentic.

    The people posting the reviews are obviously not genuine contributing members of our community.

    This constitutes a sneaky form of advertising, verging on outright spam, and both are against the posted rules of this forum. It does not matter if they are legitimate TMS practitioners or not. A genuine review has been posted in this thread which casts doubt on their effectiveness.

    Another of their scripted reviews has been reported. Working on a resolution.
    Ellen likes this.
  8. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Still catching up to my analysis of these posts - it's a bit challenging! I realized that this one is a good example of the issue.

    So, the guy who responded to the post referenced above, Georgia Jed, has posted only three times in our forum.
    All three are similarly-scripted promotions of pcc.
    In one post he said his cure came after six sessions, but in another post he said it was two sessions.
    Twice he was asked legitimate questions by members but did not respond.

    Go to his profile page and click on Postings to see all of his content. Back in March we would never have known, but now it's more obvious that he is probably not genuine. This is also true for the other pcc pushers - check all of the postings by Katie Scissor and the same pattern is there, too. There is no original content, nor any authentic personal contributions to our community.

    I appreciate the alertness of an experienced member who initially reported two suspicious posts by these two users.
  9. JoeHealingTms

    JoeHealingTms Peer Supporter

    That is what makes all their references so fishy. You can see that the posts are basically the same pattern, no real details, no connection to the other members. Mainly when we come here, we share with others the good and the bad. We look for help but also bring details of how we reached this point. If we got some relief we post even more details, not a " I went to X clinic and got completely cured". There is no problem in a legitimate clinic offering services. It is when you have to go as low as to exploit the desperation of people who really need help to make a dime. I think the best example is what Timbercat said. An expensive (to me) initial evaluation that most insurance companies wont cover, and then an "aggressive " plan that is not affordable. I guess that when they say aggressive would be a lot of therapies per week in those 90 days, that will amount to several hundreds each week. No one can guarantee a TMS cure in 90 days, and if they say something similar they should include " or your money back", which they won't. The thing is, most people here actually ASK for TMS therapists available. If they were upfront from the beginning, the only thing they had to do was to make a post announcing themselves as a TMS clinic for anyone in need. That would have sufficed I think. Taking the other route is what makes them not trust worthy. It would be fairly easy for any doctor who knows how TMS work, to do a lot of money on empty promises without getting any real long term relief. Thanks God we have a lot of people in this group that are aware and awake.
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  10. plum

    plum Beloved Grand Eagle

    Indeed, and in an ever disreputable cycle of sham posts their latest offering went on to slander Alan Gordon. Why change a winning formula eh?

    Scroll down to @Chiro-Kathy whose post, surprise, surprise, sounds like all the others.

    http://www.tmswiki.org/forum/threads/possibly-not-genuine-success-no-more-back-pain-thanks-dr-sarno.16786/ (Possibly not Genuine: Success - No more back pain! Thanks Dr. Sarno)
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
    JanAtheCPA likes this.
  11. Nicole J. Sachs LCSW

    Nicole J. Sachs LCSW Therapist and TMS Author

    I'm just catching up over here and I want to commend you guys for being so genuine and caring about this community to investigate things like this with such resolve. Bravo and brava. I love the ways TMSers protect one another. Also thanks to TTom and Plum for always standing up for those who are fighting the good fight and have the best in their hearts for people. Like me! (wink, wink) ;)

    To add my 2 cents, I think it hurts people to hear that anything can be "cured" in 2 sessions or anything even remotely like that. TMS is a life long journey that can be a beautiful one, but to see it as a quick fix is only a recipe for more TMS. From my (albeit hasty) read of this thread, I do not believe the post re: The Pain Cure Clinic is a genuine one. That is not to say that it is a bad place, just that the tactic is underhanded and leaves a bad taste.

    Sending love to you guyssss. n.
  12. honey badger

    honey badger Peer Supporter

    fbcoach, I was also pretty sure I had read in Sarno's books that RA wasn't a TMS equivalent, but Steve Ozanich certainly mentions it as a TMS equivalent, and he's as true a disciple of Dr. Sarno as they come. On the cover of his book (The Great Pain Deception) he has a bunch of TMS aflictions, and arthritis is right there alongside migranes, chronic fatigue, fibro, etc. I believe the early works of Sarno say RA wasn't part of TMS but the more recent ones do. Please correct me if I'm wrong!
  13. Julie-Ellen

    Julie-Ellen New Member

    I also got that impression on reading 'The Great Pain Deception' and Dr Sarno's book 'The Divided Mind'. I was diagnosed with RA three years ago.

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