Show anger in real or in your mind

Hi Herbie
I live in Istanbul Turkey.. We should have 7-10 hours time difference, and it might be expensive. But i would love to skype ? My adress is ustunucar1147
And i appreciate your offer

 

Hi Chickenbone
Wowow...what a post!
There are tonnes of questions i'd like to ask
Like:
1. So can i conclude that anger is a primitive and nonessential and unnecassry feeling that in time of evolution will dissappear?
2. Or anger is an opportunity for us to turn into a positive feeling and be happier and healhtier?
3. I thought anger is one of the few feelings every creature is born with and necasary
4. I live in a culture where almost nobody gives way to each other in traffic. Lack of respect to each other.. This makes me angry because it causes me to either be late to anywhere or to fight for my way in traffic which causes more stress...so what is it that i dont like about myself in this instance? Because i dont like it in others so it mus be something i dont like about myself..?

 

Now I associate rain with safety. Living in our motorhome for 18 months, the rain was cozy and soothing. The sound lulled me into anxiety-free dreams. Since our move to Oregon, my conditioning has been changed.
Hi Lily Rose
Great post thank you
I eant to ask you how you did change your perception of rain and now its a no trigger for you!? Is it something that you did or did it change by itself over time after you moved?
Thank you
Emre

 

Hello, Emre ... nice to meet you. One of the lovely aspects of the Internet is the ability to meet people from all over the world. The diverse cultural aspects add new dimension to so many facets of our perceptions.

To understand the change of conditioning, I must speak of the motorhome itself. It is a 34-foot box on wheels that contains everything I need. A living area, project table (aka dining table), 3-burner stove/oven, a queen sized bed with extensive closets and additional storage, a bathtub/shower, and a huge amount of basement storage. In 1996 we traveled for 8 months across the U.S., from Alaska to the North East, to Florida, and back West to California. Destinations were random and unplanned. Our true home, on wheels.

From then on, the motorhome became my refuge, even when we lived in houses. If my emotions became overloaded, I would flee into the motorhome and curl up in the bedroom, away from all sources of outside communications.

While living here, in Oregon, we spent 18 months living in it as we reconstructed an abandoned house on 2 acres. There is much rain here, though not as much as needed. The sound became the lullaby that nourished my heart and the land that now resided in our custody. My apple trees and plum trees and flowers and more flowers basked in the rain. And the rainbows .... oh the rainbows! Without the rain, that glorious streak of beauty cannot exist.

The change .... it came, really, when all my senses awoke, when I could really see and hear and feel and breathe and take in the raw scents of rainfall.

If my life-long antipathy towards rain could be so dramatically altered ... it means all my perceptions must be examined.

I hope this answers the question you posed.

with grace and gratitude,
^_^

 

I love this, Lily Rose. Truth is beautiful in your hands.

 

Hi. Emry. Your mobile home sounds great. Everything you and your wife need, and you can travel easily.

I love rain. Most people stay indoors when it rains, so the neighborhood is quiet. I love quiet. I hate screaming kids
and rock music. I also like the sound of rain on the roof of my house. I love going to sleep hearing it on the roof.

I think that liking rain is part of our love of water and hearing it splash against rocks. It's soothing and relaxing.

As for being angry and what to do about it, Herbie is right... I laugh it off. It's really wonderful how fast we can
forget what we've angry about, or who we're angry with, if we just laugh. I don't even need to watch or think
of anything funny. I just laugh for a minute or less and it relieves the anger.

I drive as little as possible now (I live in a small suburb of Chicago and almost never drive into the city because
of the crazy drivers and traffic). We can be as careful as possible but someone else will cause an accident.
Too many drivers are multitasking, on cell phones, head phones with music, text messaging, etc.

It doesn't help to get angry at motorists who drive like they own the road. Maybe try laughing at them,
even telling them (from inside your car with the windows closed) that they're a-holes.

 

Hi Emre, I will try to comment on the issues you brought up: The way I see it:

1. I think this can be answered by understanding the nature that governs the way in which both animals and humans react to anger or fear producing stimuli in the environment. Animals are governed by nature alone. When an animal is presented with a frightening situation, the animal must do what nature dictates: fight or flee. The animal does not have a choice because he is governed by the nature of which he is a part. Humans are different. Humans are governed somewhat by nature, but also by a higher power, making a human being more than the sum of his/her parts. We don't know as much about the higher part because it is sensed through intuition, whereas the lower part can be sensed by our 5 senses. Therefore, A higher order of human being can chose from which level of being he chooses to react. Humans have a choice how to react to stimuli whereas animals don't. Many people don't know about this higher self and spend their whole lives acting pretty much like animals. It is from this higher nature than we learn to understand ourselves. So you could say that a higher order of human will not react with anger because he knows himself better. He knows that embracing this negative state results from a mind that has no higher understanding of itself. In a very real way, we are fooled by our minds into falling for and identifying with an angry state. First our minds meet the situation with fear because understanding is missing in action. Then, the mind justifies it's unfortunate reaction by compounding the mistake by becoming self-righteous about it as "you should not have made me angry, it is your fault". So self-righteous fear becomes anger.The higher order of human knows that identification with an angry state doesn't serve himself, the other guy or the world. The one to suffer the most from embracing these angry states is himself and this negative state will come back to haunt him in one way or another.

2. Yes, I believe that the realization that anger does not serve oneself well can be a catalyst for higher understanding. This sort of happened with me. I came to know that embracing and becoming identified with an angry state damaged myself as well as people I love. We see all the time that repressing anger causes us severe pain, as in TMS. Anger does mostly collateral damage. The person whom the anger is directed towards is almost never negatively affected and ends up owning the sufferer. How many time have you found yourself "owned" emotionally by someone you hate. Notice the extreme negative impact in your own life.
3. No I don't believe this is so.
4. I can understand how you feel in traffic. But you do have options to reduce the negative impact on you and others. Most of us don't live in perfect places, there always is something we have a lot of trouble dealing with. At these times, we all feel, "Gee if only it wasn't this way, how much safer and happier we would all be" That is very true, but unfortunately unrealistic, so we must accept some things as they are. But you can have your attitude about it without letting it make you angry. In fact, you are much more likely to stay out of an accident by staying present and alert and out of an angry state. A person carrying an angry mental state can be described as an accident waiting to happen because he/she has turned away from himself/herself when they identified with the negative state.

I hope this has helped. By the way, I have not mastered these concepts, I am still struggling, but it helps me to put them on paper.

 

Chickenbone ... I think I understand some of what you are trying to say, but I am unsure of some of the phrasing. I am a very literal person, and words have tremendous power for me.

Wild animals are certainly products of their upbringing and environments, but I could not ever say whether all other mammals that grace this planet are not part of the same magnificent tapestry that we are part of. How can we explain a horse allowing himself to be hit several times by a car, refusing to go down until his rider was safely free from danger? My mother's life was saved by this horse, who would not fall until she got free. His leg was mangled, and still held steady. This is not fight or flight. This is awareness. How do we explain the Orcas in Prince Williams sound seeming express emotion after realizing a mistake (http://rense.com/general67/BUMP.HTM) was made? There are many examples of animals acting outside what we would expect. How can we claim they are also not God's children? Who are we to make this claim?

I suspect this may cause offense to some, and that is not my intention, ever. My belief is that we are ALL connected. All life.

I am also uncomfortable with thinking in terms of a 'higher order of human being'. We are all souls on a human journey, but we also are at different levels of growth. I am neither a higher being nor a lesser being.

That being said, what I am perceiving (which may be not what you mean at all) is that beneath the physical and emotional tangle, is our true Light, and when we can see that Light, anger is not necessary, because fear does not exist there.

I love your post for many reasons ... mostly for the depth of expression and the clear desire to realize we ARE more than the sum of our parts. We are more, because we are connected to each other. I am you, you are me.

with grace and gratitude,
^_^

 

Ah, yes, that is how I understand it too.

Thank you, Chickenbone and Lily Rose, for your clarity.

 

Great discussion here but just gotta say that you once again knocked it out of the park with your sage observations, Ellen.

All of you folks are simply awesome.

 

This thread has been so helpful. I can relate to so many of the posts. I was an angry teen and had no symptoms, when I started to hold back to behave more like a grown up, then everything began.

My question is are there specific practices that have been helpful to you to see the "choice", I mean to choose not to be angry, but to choose to see things in a positive more compassionate way? For example is Byron Katie's The Work helpful to change thinking? Or any other simple strategies that one can practice?

 

I would really like to be angry if it means that I would have less pain. I know it sounds selfish & lacking in compassion but there I've said it.

I love yr posts Lily Rose & I admire you. You are so gracious, so forgiving, so compassionate & come across as being so caring.

I think I am to a certain degree a caring compassionate person especially with my family & people I know & old people (which probably comes from living with my grandfather for 10 years) but when people talk about universal love & this connection that we all have for each other etc etc. I honestly don't feel it. My friends often tease me & say I have more feelings for animals than human beings which is also true. I will rescue, feed, get dirty go out of my way, pretty much do anything for animals but I can be intolerant & critical of people.

On the other hand I will never intentionally hurt anyone either. I try to treat people with respect & dignity, pretty much how I expect to be treated.

So I wonder when is it OK to be angry & express it?


Mala

 

This post evoked a warm, soft laugh. It was so bluntly honest, and I do so much appreciate Truth, whatever that truth may be.

I think there is a blurring of concepts between experiencing anger, and acting with anger. Feeling anger is normal. Suppressing/repressing anger is unhealthy. Expressing anger in the heat of the moment, and speaking rashly ..... this is to be avoided.

Being angry does not mean it is necessary to lash out and speak with words that cannot be unspoken. That creates a negative cycle.

Four years ago, my beautiful mother suffered a brain aneurysm. At that time, we were barely on speaking terms. She was drinking heavily, and spewing things that bewildered me. Watching over her in the hospital as she fought for life, I had to examine my own thoughts. Because she had hurt me, I had written her off. Because she drank, I had written her off. She made a miraculous recovery, literally. After two weeks, she was released, and I spent the next three weeks with her at her home, where her mother was also in residence. I had deep abhorrence towards my maternal grandmother, and my initial response was to flee from any and all conflict. But I could not leave my mother. I was civil. It was the best I could do. One afternoon, we were playing dominoes, and my grandmother made a careless comment about my beloved dad (my mom's 2nd husband, my soul-dad) and his suicide (when I was twelve). My mother responded absently. Calmly, I left the room, but I was shaking badly, and planning my immediate departure. I stood in the kitchen clutching the sink, struggling to breathe. Leave my mom? Leave her before she could function well on her own?

I couldn't. Nor could I let the comment be allowed to remain un-addressed. Projecting calm is something I do well, so I called upon that skill and re-entered the room. I told them both that I needed to speak with them. Pulling up a footstool, I forced myself to make eye contact with both of them, and said quietly, "I loved my dad very deeply, and I never ever want to hear either of you speak of him with anything less than compassion and respect. His pain outweighed his ability to cope. It had nothing to do whether he loved you enough, or loved me enough. I know he loved me. And I know his pain was too much."

Both of them were shocked, but not in anger. They were astonished. My grandmother then completely blindsided me by saying gently, "Oh, honey, I didn't know."

Now I live a couple miles from my mom, and three times a week I drive out to the facility where my grandmother lives and she pays me nicely to massage her feet for an hour. I am her advocate and stand up for her in making sure she is getting good care.

I was angry, but striking them with words would not serve any of us. It was my first time ever in standing my ground. I learned that I could survive a confrontation. Survive, and gain tremendously from it.

As for animals ..... Oh Mala .... I do hear you. While I am compassionate towards people in need, I am more so about animals. And I do judge (yes, I said 'judge') people on how they treat animals. Our dog is fed before I get my coffee Our dog sleeps on the bed. Our treatment of animals is a reflection of ourselves.

I am learning forgiveness. There are areas I still lack in this .... someone who mistreats another, especially those who cannot fight back .. I'm not so forgiving. And anyone who mistreats an animal, child, or elder ... I have flash-fantasies about doing indulging in some creative torture (I do have a creative mind).

When is it okay to be angry? It is okay to be angry whenever you feel it.

When is it okay to express it? I believe it is always okay to express it .... it is how you express it that matters.

with grace and gratitude,
^_^

 

I get angry, but get over it fast. I guess I know that it doesn't help to stay angry.
I try to laugh it off and it works. I rarely stay angry about anything. I just figure it's
another of life's curve balls thrown at us that winds up hitting us.

 

This thread is so interesting and everyone has made such wise and thoughtful comments. It's given me much to think about as I struggle with this issue, too.

I think if I understand it correctly, that repressing anger is not the same as not expressing anger. My understanding is that repression occurs when I am feeling an emotion, but am not consciously aware of it. If I'm aware that I'm angry, but I choose to not express it outwardly, that is not repression. I'm someone that never shows anger, but I am aware of feeling anger at times. However, I learned at a very young age that I was much safer both physically and psychologically if I kept my negative feelings to myself. There are a lot of problems with this coping style in forging healthy ongoing relationships, but it can be useful in some situations where expressing anger is not deemed acceptable, e.g. the workplace. There are also a lot of problems created by those who express their anger in the heat of moment. Finding healthy ways to communicate our feelings to others in our lives is always a challenge. Lily Rose gives a beautiful example above of doing it in a healthy, honest, positive way.

I don't think choosing not to express anger when one is consciously aware of feeling anger causes TMS. I think what can cause TMS is if there is internal conflict about feeling it--the battle between the id, ego, and super ego (as Freud put it) or between our 'parts' (as IFS puts it). I'm reading Dr. Alexander's book now, the Hidden Psychology of Pain, and he states that this internal conflict can then lead to repression because it is threatening to our sense of who we are. I'm still mulling this over.

 

Hi Painfreefuture (great name),
What has been most helpful to me as I continue to struggle with "choice" are: Byron Katie's The Work is a great journaling technique, especially for anger at others. I've benefited a great deal from her book Loving What Is, and her website has many wonderful resources as well. I've found mindfulness meditation extremely helpful by strengthening that part of our mind that is the observer who is aware of our anger, and by creating more "space" between emotions or thoughts and reactions to them. It is in that space that we can then choose how we react.

What have others found useful?

 

Oh wow, great posts. First of all, I can see from reading over my last post that it may seem that I insulted animals. I dearly love all animals and would never put them down. I guess what I mean by "animal" is in the negative, general sense, sort of like a lower nature. But not like a lower nature is to be disrespected. I am just trying to express what I have personally learned about anger. Anger and the underlying fear have been my primary psychological problems all my life and I am sure are responsible for my TMS. But since most of my anger comes from a place in me that is not rational, CBT therapy never worked for me. It did not work for me to either repress or express my anger. Both tended to get me into trouble. So I had to get rid of it some way. So it finally worked for me to take it into the spiritual realm.

Hi Painfreefuture, I had the same thing happen that you describe. When I was overtly angry, which I sometimes still am, I did not have pain. Only later when I repressed the anger did I start to have pain. However, I could not go back to being the overtly angry person that I once was. I did not like that in myself. So the spiritual route is what is working for me because it is allowing me to drop the anger. My desire to be a better person is stronger than my desire to hold angry states in my mind. For example, people who understand what it is to forgive know that forgiveness is not something we do for another person, but for ourselves. They have chosen happiness and peace of mind over the angry self-righteousness of unforgiving. It is purely selfish. I finally realized that it really is in my own self interest not to allow myself to carry anger around. The works of Guy Finley are helping me a lot. This is not for everyone, but if you are interested, got to guyfinleynow.org.

Lily Rose, I am sorry you had to go through those experiences in your childhood. It sounds like to are handling things well now.

 

I've been watching some Joyce Meyer on tv and she said last night that one thing
God does not want us to do is hold any anger toward anyone. That isn't easy, but we can try.

Guy Finley also is a good source of inspiration.

Joyce Meyer says we should join her "30-30" club. Spend 30 minutes reading the Bible for 30 days
to find more wisdom and peace. I'm going to go to her web site and learn more about it:

joycemeyer.com

 

Well, I just did it again I got angry. Most of the time my anger escapes in the form of sarcasm. I belong to another forum for osteoporosis. Of course I have the underlying awareness that most of the financial backers of this forum are big pharma, assorted groups in the medical community and supplement companies, all the groups I don't trust. I am sure the reason the financial backers pay for the forum is to keep tabs on what the dumb public is thinking. So that concept is always simmering in the back of my mind. I only stay there because I had hyperparathyroidism, which was not diagnosed for years because doctors are so stupid and reactionary. I have helped a lot of people get attention for this disorder, when their doctors were completely ignorant. But sometimes I wander into other discussions. For some reason, the stuff that goes on on this forum, a lot of wining about the miseries of fibromyalgia and other things, often gets the better of me. Of course, I think a lot of people on the forum don't have a clue that their mind is giving them physical problems and if I say so, I get ganged up on. I probably should just get off. But I like to help people and I have made a difference.

I think we are the intelligent ones who know that, even if we have some medical issues, that the mind can cause or contribute to these problems. People like us are much more aware of what is really going on. The people on this forum don't get on my nerves the way people do on the other forum. Anybody got any suggestions?

 

Hi, Chickenbone. Naive me, I didn't know that most of the financial bakers of the forum are in the medical field or pharmaceutical companies
that want to know what ails us and how we find ways to heal. Well, they sure ought to know by now that a lot of people want to try the TMS approach to healing.

I get angry when I watch tv commercials about products that might relieve a symptom but might also kill us.