The Presence Process - Share Experiences & Ask Questions

No,it doesn't help me at all. It's new agey,and with TMS being why I'm here,I've had to make a decision to stick to TMS work. Michael Brown is a little off!

 

In fact today I'm in severe pain and not one method I've learned from anything is helping. Sometimes people mean well when "wanting" to help but, if stress is involved it's not always beneficial to the recipient. I'm done with the book,second time I've tried it...

 

I've not given the Presence Process a chance, but I understand Dr Sarno has made reference to and used it in his lectures.

 

Seems like the Michael Brown meditation-breathing mantra, "I/Am/Here/Now/In/This", breaks up obsessive mental dialog that stresses you out and keeps you from centering in yourself. Seems to be one more way of starting the Relaxation Response that Dr Robert Benson talks about in his book of the same name. Any procedure or practice that does that will short circuit the obsessive-compulsive emotional drives that activate and energize TMS symptoms. Lots of different mantras do that same thing. You don't have to accept all of Brown's higher-consciousness pretensions.

 

I am on week 8 of the Presence Process (first round) and Love it so far. My favorite part is the 15 minute breathing meditations in the morning and evening. Nothing else has worked to calm me like this has. The doc who diagnosed me with TMS, suggested that I do the PP. He stated that the meditations cause positive neural changes in our brains. My immune system is also benefiting. All good signs. I will admit, I was disappointed to see the the website for the PP is not available.

I wanted to weigh in on the mention of Tapping. So far, that has been the Biggest Bang for my TMS Buck. Honestly, I got positive shifts and benefits from only 8 private Skype FEFT tapping sessions. I made a list of my past traumas, and the practitioners and I went through each one and Defractionated those past memories.

While you are deep in the memory, those networks are lit up in your brain, and you TAP, which acts as a Competing Stimuli, thus, quickly changing those old pathways in the brain. Plus, the 5 areas they have us tap on, directly calm the fight/flight. Pretty cool stuff. I do know that some of my friends got no benefit from tapping, so I guess you wont know until you try it.

 

I think any Mind body technique will work to some degree if you believe it will. Any thing that would help break that chain of negative thoughts in our mind will help . Tapping help because it does exactly that. Tapping work much better if the person that introduce tapping to you also wear a white coat and have a doctor degree, it work even if you tapped the wrong tapping points. Acupuncture has help billion of people in the East for thousand of year and yet many in the West think it is Quack medicine. I personally think Reconnective Healing is quack and yet many would pay tons of money to receive it. Some even claimed it work over the phone or over long distance of thousand of miles. Amazing isn't it? Even Jesus or Buddha can't make that claim. In my country there are shamans who specialize in performing ceremony that would evict the evil spirit that inhibit a sick person's mind. He can cure just about any disease there is.

Any thing would work if we truly believe it would. Our symptoms is the exactly mirror image of our state of mind.

 

I do remember seeing an interview with Michael Brown and he was against the idea of setting up an online support community or letting anyone teach The PP. He made it very clear that each individual should go through their own journey and online communities can slow or impact ones journey. Which some do agree with.

I agree with Balto, it's all down to personal preference and what you can "buy into", the very fact that we over analyse every approach can instill doubts and could potentially impact our healing. I guess when we start using one of the many "tools" we need to be less focussed on thinking or analysing if it will work, but more focussed on the doing, letting go and surrendering to the idea ... as doubt can lead to the fear of thinking something may not work.

 

I've done the PP twice now and found it an intellectually intriguing exercise both times. However, now I continue to do Brown's breathing mantra morning and evenings because it helps me detach from my obsessive internal dialog and in the process relax.

 

Excellent points Mike. Thanks

 

I'm glad Markus posted. It's good for people to see that TPP isn't for everyone. It's definitely not easy at all.

It sounds like Markus thought TPP would help get rid of pain quickly. TPP does nothing of the sort. In fact, it brings up the pain and teaches the person how to sit with it and love it unconditionally with no attempts to get rid of it. This removes the suffering caused by constantly trying to resist pain and get rid of it. Makes life so much easier.

After we sit with the pain for a while (could take minutes, days, weeks, or even months), it eventually integrates and it's gone. It'll come and go and we sit with it when we can, but we don't repress it any more.

Doing this let's us realize that we have everything we need to deal with pain. It keeps us from getting in a codependent cycle of attaching to methods or books or people (psychologists/therapists) or whoever. Otherwise, we're always dependant on someone or something to keep us "happy." That's the coolest thing...when you know you have what you need, and will never be dependent again. It's so freeing. Drops lots of fear.

Instead of wanting to get rid of pain, TPP is teaching us to have incredible courage by sitting with it and loving it unconditionally. That takes a lot of strength. TPP is supposed to slowly garner strength. As it does, we get better at being with more painful stuff for as long as it takes.

But is someone thinks this method is supposed to remove pain when it first comes up, that expectation will cause them to be very angry or disappointed when it doesn't.

Great post, Markus. It brings up a vital point for people to recognize. TPP is not for making a person feel better. It just eventually has that benefit as the painful emotions integrate from unconditionally loving them.

And I agree with Michael's assessment that self-facilitation is a great idea. I like that the book is teaching that. It's too easy to let our codependent emotions take control without us realizing it, and suddenly we're relying on someone else or something else to make us happy. That's a big trap. It's hard for both the therapist and the patient to navigate. That's why I won't facilitate. I'll help a little as a friend, but not facilitation. I still screw up sometimes when im just helping as a friend. That's rough stuff.

Michael Brown stopped facilitating because he saw his ego getting in the way, and he didn't want that. He also said he didn't want to be attached to this work forever...that there was always and endpoint to it for him so he could go live his life. When you read TPP, he clearly says gurus will just point you back to yourself. But he never wanted to be known as a guru, so he detached from the work, wrote the book, spoke on it for a little while longer, then ended his speaking on the subject. I don't agree with a lot of his higher spiritual stuff, but that doesn't take away from the usefulness of the work, like Forest mentioned. But I also understand what Forest was talking about regarding Michael Brown seeming like an all-knowing guru in the book. There was definitely a feeling of pride when reading that. I, too, would've like the book to be more like Forest mentioned. That's how I try to present myself and my experiences with this stuff. But everyone is at a different place in their development, Michael Brown included. I've matured in that aspect, but I haven't in some others. Michael Brown has probably matured in lots of other areas I haven't.

With therapists and doctors and other educated people, there are certain advantages and certain drawbacks. On the one hand, they have lots of research at hand and lots of technical data that helps with assessing things. They're good at being safe and careful with their practices usually. They have a good amount of training and knowledge, too.

They have some downsides, too. They are usually confined to mainstream medical practices and medical knowledge. They can't go outside of that too terribly far or they'll go outside the law. That's one limiting factor. Also, the medical word can't test the metaphysical very well since it's abstract and not tangible. So they, like anyone else, are subject to theorizing. And theories are proved wrong in science all the time as we get new data. And then those theories are proved wrong as well with more data. Also, having more knowledge can confuse the ability to put the pieces together, causing researchers to come to bad conclusions. And doctors cam get stuck on current models, too, keeping them from seeing new, innovative things.

Then there's the problem of people thinking that just because someone has a degree, or wrote a book, that they methods must work and are correct. This can cause a person not to think for their self just because they suddenly defer to knowledge. But knowledge, however logical it seems at the time, can often be inaccurate. Frontal lobodomies are a good example.

My point is that it's important to understand what the real advantages and disadvantages for both educated people and non-educated people are, and consider them. They both have advantages and disadvatages. It took Sarno stepping out of the mainstream to do his work. He could've gotten stuck in mainstream work and never tried to discover TMS type issues. So, I think a very open-minded and common-sense approach is needed for each of us.

 

Believing in what method you're doing is very important, as was stated above. It makes a big difference. If I see that a method works for some people, I'll know it works, but I have to understand that it may or may not work on me. But I'll still go into it knowing it does work.

I did Reconnective Healing and The Reconnection. They didn't do much for me, but they do amazing things for some people. So I know it works. And my belief in them, in those instances, didn't help. So while belief usually helps, it's not a guarantee something will work. Everyone's different.

 

Hi Brian, I've started reading the PP it doesn't actually come across as a book to aid health issues, although he does make a very vague reference to his recovery.

I believe it's more spiritual and how to integrate ones emotions and feelings than to recover. It's much like Jon Kabatt-Zinn always says, when you meditate, it's about raising awareness and not having the expectation to get better - although this may occur by practicing. Like, meditation the PP ask you to enter the state with no expectations.

IMO, I'd say the book is definitely more in the spirtuality realms, than a TMS one and targets quite a different audience.

 

I am also glad that I had posted. When I posted about the book not helping this is not true. I was reminded that there were areas where I had had success. Now in talking with Brian(who actually coached me) I have probably 2 areas that are highly personal and private and the results yet to be seen, and would not want that revealed on this forum. After I had tried the book oh 3 months ago I stopped. About a month ago i contacted Brian
1:to say high,as we had enjoyed a good friendship.
2: that to mention I might like to try the PP again. One of the first issues I worked on was contacting my inner child. Brian had prepared me how to do that and it was an amazing integration,there is more to follow. There was just an inner peace,and lots of tears. I tried a second time and inner child would not respond other than to go and make yourself better,and keeping coming back. I had a dream that also could have been triggered by the book,as well as an unexplained rise in testosterone levels.
THE DREAM IS PERSONAL AND WILL NOT BE REVEALED ON THIS FORUM. OR ANY FORUM! one thing I misunderstood about the book is that there isn't a quick fix,it takes times. Brian's mentioned co-dependant and sent me a reminder that i was co-dependant,so I thought the only way I can understand this is to try another integration. This time I did the Breathing and sat on my couch and then started a dialogue with my inner child.
He plainly told me that he was angry that my father especially did not speak up for me when I needed so I developed a false sense of security,meaning always obtaining reassureance before going ahead with something I love (like playing guitar at a local Bar,I will ask how do I sound,have I chosen the right songs , etc. (I write my own material). The adult Mark knows exactly what he's doing, it's the inner child who had to second guess himself. So while it appears I'm not certain that the book has helped me. It has and anyone here who desires to do it must remember it won't noticeably help immediately. .......it takes time. The best way is to do it yourself with a minimum of questions. My apologies if anyone was mislead.

Markus

 

A nice post Markus, Brian has always been helpful and approachable.

I think like any method, we have to be willing and give a fair amount of time to reap any rewards.

 

I agree Mike, it's really the foundation of healing! But oh the anguish! Lol!

 

Markus,

Thanks so much for your post. That's helpful.

I'm glad I could answer questions for you and give some input. I'm definitely no coach or anything like that. But I don't mind answering questions and giving input.

I, too, have some codependent issues that I do my best to not feed. I rarely see them pop up, but they do if I'm not careful. And when I notice them, I usually take action very quickly to take care of it so I'm not using it to repress emotions. And if I'm not careful, I can act too abruptly. Poor Markus saw that, and I felt so awful. Took me a few days to process the emotions and take a better approach to things. I really hate when I don't think of the most loving action right up front and do it. lol But I was so thankful to Markus for the situation, because it triggered all kinds of emotions I really wanted to deal with, but rarely get the chance. So, this has been a huge help for me. Thanks so much, Markus.

And I agree--oh the anguish! lol I'm still doing my best to hold on to these emotions I'm feeling so I can really love them unconditionally and get used to feeling them. No telling how many days I can keep them around, but I hope for a while.

 

UPDATE: Maybe someone can get something useful out of what I'm going through. lol So I'll share.

I'm having a lot of good processing right now, and man it's rough. I finally got complete privacy (whole-house empty) yesterday and today, and that's what I needed. It allows me to cry really loud and hard if necessary, which helps a lot with processing. So I sat, breathed, and stopped my mind from thinking about anything as best I could. If a thought came up, I'd wipe it as soon as I realized that, then focus back on the present moment and the feeling in my body. My stomach burns when these emotions come up, and I even feel sort of a ring of pain all the way around my waist, but mostly on the right half of my body. That area is usually associated with insecurity and self worth if I remember right, which is spot on for this. And I rarely get to work with these emotions & sensations, so this is a really great opportunity, painful as it is. The pain is sometimes strong and sometimes weak. If I notice it gets weak, I'll put my attention on it and it'll get stronger sometimes, which is what I'm shooting for. I want it to stay with me as long as possible so I can consciously love it and get used to it.

When the emotions come up, I feel like it's shame from me blaming myself for everything due to holding myself to a standard (a standard which says that if I measure up to it, I'm worthy to feel good--and it's probably an impossible standard, too). I don't consciously hold myself to this standard. It's all subconscious--parts of me still immature from childhood. Also, memories will come up of other times I've felt this way or memories of times I associate with shame but didn't feel it in that moment.

I remind myself that the emotions were passed down to me, and none of those events caused them. Those events just triggered the emotions I already had repressed which need to be expressed and loved.

When my mind thinks about those events from the past, I do my best to bring my attention back to the present.

What really brings these emotions up is that I'm stilling my mind and setting my intention. As I breathe and really clear my mind, my mind is no longer trying to think its way out of the pain or distract me from it. In other words, I'm removing my coping mechanism. As I sit without my coping mechanism of thought, the emotions that need to come up will either come up soon or come up when I'm doing with my breathing (when I'm in a situation like I am now where the pain is very present and harsh). This sometimes happens when the pain isn't present and harsh, too, which is what TPP is for--bringing those repressed emotions we don't know about to the surface for processing.

So the shame and disgust and all of that judgment and anger and fear and grief hit me and I start crying. And I cry really hard for a long time--as long as I can. Maybe 20-40 minutes or more. I push really hard with my stomach to get the loud crying out. While I do this, I just place my unconditional attention and unconditional acceptance on myself. If the crying lulls or if I want to step up the crying more, I picture God hugging me and myself hugging me. The tears that come from that are tears where I feel like I'm a huge failure, because I judged myself as not good enough to be loved by God or myself or my parents or friends. So I remove judgment and love myself as best I can and feel God's love, too. I even imagine Him comforting me with talking, as well. It's how I let Him talk to me. He always treats me with unconditional love. It's the best way I know how to talk to God. I just imagine what I feel He's saying to me in that moment. Whether I'm right or wrong about what He's actually saying doesn't matter. I just know that everything He says shows that He doesn't judge me at all and doesn't put me up against any standards. His love is unconditional and He knows I'm just here to learn, not to achieve some moral standard. Sometimes I'll punch the couch or a pillow just a little bit if I feel I need to physically express some anger, but mostly the anger comes out in my wails when I'm crying. There's no dignity retained while doing this--it's full-on humiliation, but no one's seeing it except me.

After I feel the crying is basically done, I have to just sit and relax for a moment, because I'm spent--especially since I didn't hardly sleep last night. If absolutely necessary, I'll take a sleeping pill one night if I have a few nights without much sleep, just to recoup some of my energy so I can function. But generally, I'll just lay in bed for hours, putting my focus on the pain and on not thinking about anything else...and I breathe. I figure, heck, if I'm not sleeping, I can process. And if I'm tired for a day or two, I'll feel the pain more, which is more processing for me!

I notice that after I'm done crying, sometimes, the pain is gone for a little bit, or it's greatly dulled. I actually try to bring up the pain some more after that to keep it present with me throughout the day. It can stay as long as it wants. My job is just to learn to live with it and love it unconditionally till it decides it wants to integrate (aka - love itself, I think). We can't receive God's love if we don't love ourselves, because we'll think we don't deserve it. So I place no standards or judgments on myself. The more I do that, the more my dysfunctional emotions (pieces of my ego--hard heart pieces) feel loved and want to integrate.

If I really feel I need to, I'll remind those parts of myself that there is no standard or judgment against them. Unconditional love is just that--unconditional. So those parts are loved as they are, and since I'm a child of God, I have His traits, too, like unconditional love. I just have to believe it and utilize it. So I utilize it on those parts of myself. Sometimes, they need help believing so I explain that to them real quick along with whatever else they need to understand about unconditional love and how they're free from judgment of any kind. Eventually, they'll accept it and let go. I don't like to talk to them if I don't have to, though, because it gets my mind to start working and wanting to fix things. So I reserve that for special occasions when I think something is hanging around a little longer than it should and feel it needs to integrate. I just help it along, but I don't force it. Sometimes, beliefs won't allow something to integrate. So I just correct the belief with unconditional love and logic.

We'll see how long this one hangs around. This one's really important, so I hope to God it stays a while and I get really good at loving it and being with it. If it all integrates, that'll be awesome, too.

 

Forest,

You said something like Reconnective Healing could heal people at a distance, but Jesus couldn't. Jesus did in one instance, actually, with the Roman soldier.