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Pain and fear since 30 Years

Discussion in 'Structured Educational Program' started by Kristina1987, Aug 3, 2022.

  1. Kristina1987

    Kristina1987 New Member

    HALLO
    Ich bin Kristina. 35 Jahre aus Deutschland. TMS cross my way in May this Year. But since this Moment it is more horrible. Sorry for my English. I do my best.

    I have read Steves O Book and Dr Sarno's and begin Alan Gordon's program. Nir Brosh, the only Tms doctor in Germany, is currently not treating any patients. he just wrote me an email to get in touch with other people with Tms. Sometimes I have so many symptoms that I don't want to live anymore. If one goes better, the next will come. The problem is that I already had serious illnesses like a tumor in my knee 10 years ago and I'm so scared that it will come back and with all the symptoms I never know and have doubts whether it's Tms.
    The constant cracking in the sacroiliac joint is also very bad. it's always jammed, then it cracks and it gets better for a moment. ehlers danlos was excluded,but I have very soft ligaments.


    Since I was 12 years old, I have unfortunately suffered from pain in different places in the musculoskeletal system. Constant blockages, etc. I'm 35 now and was actually only ill for 30 years. Lots of infectious diseases, a weak immune system (the latter is getting better) and massive pain in my knees (tendonitis and Atrhrose) and spine. Unfortunately, I often had structural problems as well. An intestinal obstruction and adhesions in pregnancy with surgery. MANY Ops for adhesions and Pvns so a giant cell tumor in the right knee 9 years ago....

    Meine Kniescheibe knackt und es gibt ein retropatellares Syndrom und Atritis.
    Ich habe so much Therapys with so much Money. I make my Training but all the day since 30 years there is so much fear of my symptoms. I went to Coaching and Trauma Therapy etc. But it is every day the same. I have fear of walking Sitting yes fear to live with my body. I have a daughter 9 years and i want to go to holidays with her in the future. I do every Day everything i can but somtimes i want close my eyes. I go to Psychologin since 6 years .

    Für 3 Tage habe ich das Programm von Alan gestartet. Und because the rough kneecap and popping and crick sometimes i dont believe in Tms. But i have to. It is very hard. I tell you my Way and are there any others with so many obsession Thoughts and fears ?
    Lots of love Kristina
     
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  2. hawaii_five0

    hawaii_five0 Well known member

    Grüß dich Kristina, willkommen. (Ich habe einige Jahre in Deutschland verbracht, aber vor 30 Jahren, trotzdem ich versuche es auf Deutsch zu schreiben).

    Vor allem kann ich sagen du bist nicht allein. Es gibt viele Leute hier mit "obsessive thoughts and fears", zum Beispiel ich. Das ist der Brennstoff. Take heart in knowing that many people just like you have gotten better. Du kannst es auch.
     
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  3. Kristina1987

    Kristina1987 New Member

    many thanks for the kind reply. For years I thought I was alone. the worst is the obsession and fear of the symptoms. because they also limit me and always keep me on the alert. My problem is that I can't completely convince myself, ya, for example, my kneecap runs and rubs painfully because of a tilted pelvis.
    I know the belief that it's Tms is most important. I hope I have a chance to get better. I give everything! best regards and thanks Kristina
     
    hawaii_five0 likes this.
  4. Booble

    Booble Well known member

    It's very hard when you've experienced medical problems in the past. Our brains get extra scared which is completely understandable.
    But you don't want to live in the past. Those medical problems are over. They are done. You are in the present day now.

    In the present day, your symptoms are coming and going. You are not sick or ill any more.
    Don't worry if you don't 100% believe it's TMS. Don't wait until you 100% believe.

    Take the time to understand the way the brain functions. Learn how we have left over parts of our brain from our early evolution. Understand how emotions and fears are processed through that part of the brain. Know that the these lower brain functions can create uncomfortable sensations. Note that we call these sensations "symptoms" and confuse them with medical conditions. Be aware that the more we dwell on these sensations, the more we think about them, the more we read about them, the more we fear them, the more we try to figure out what they are and how to get rid of them -- the worse they get.
    Also learn about the higher functioning part of our brain. The more modern part of the brain from an evolutionary standpoint. Know that the complex thinking part of the brain is the one that is in control of our actions. That it can move forward. That it can choose exactly what you do each day.

    Then work on understanding and finding your emotions. The ones that are just under the surface. What are you angry about that you don't even know you are angry about? Or what made you very mad long, long ago? Who hurt you? Spend your time thinking and writing about that, rather than thinking and researching your symptoms. You'll find that all the sensations lessen. The symptoms will begin to melt away. They no longer are necessary. They no longer have power to keep your down.

    Disclosure. I am not an expert nor professional at any of this. The above is my opinion only and should not be taken as medical advice.
     
  5. Kristina1987

    Kristina1987 New Member

    Thank you very much for the detailed answer. Something I must have missed despite 6 years of psychotherapy. Since I started doing the program, the fear of the symptoms has increased, but more importantly, the obsession with the symptoms. I have the compulsion to constantly test my knee and bend and stretch because the kneecap cracks painfully and does not run straight. I want to do it again and again and just think about it. I am so afraid of my body and lose my movement again that I go insane. do others also have this obsession and duty to audit? Thanks to everyone. Kristina
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]Live Translation
     
  6. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    Yes! Both of these reactions to doing the program are very common! Your fearful brain wants you to remain stuck in fear, so that you stay "safe". By doing the program, you might discover that you don't have to live this way, so now your brain is fighting, and trying to make you even more afraid. Don't be fooled, and fight back!
     
  7. Booble

    Booble Well known member

    Translation via Google Translate:

    Ich denke, die meisten von uns kennen dieses Gefühl der Besessenheit. Das Gefühl, dass wir verrückt werden, wenn wir unsere Symptome immer und immer wieder überprüfen. Wir waren dort. Das heißt nicht, dass du für immer so bleiben wirst.
    Noch vor kurzem war ich besessen von meiner Herzfrequenz. Meine Nebennieren steckten in einem schlechten Kreislauf fest. Ich wachte mitten in der Nacht mit rasendem Herz auf. Meine Brust tut weh. Ich verspürte den Drang, ständig meinen Puls zu überprüfen. Ständig. Ich fing an, mit meinem Pulsoximeter an meiner Seite schlafen zu gehen. Eines Nachts wachte ich auf und es pochte so stark, dass ich einen kleinen seltsamen Herzschlag in meinem Nackenbereich spüren konnte. Es war schmerzhaft. Ich war ängstlich. Bevor ich ins Bett ging, plante ich Dinge, die für mich vorbereitet waren, falls ich nachts aufstehen musste. Stellen Sie mein Wasserglas ins Wohnzimmer, wo ich mich hinsetzen könnte, wenn ich aufstehen müsste. Hatte ich das Gefühl, verrückt zu werden. Ja bitte. Schließlich zwang ich mich, das Pulsoximeter wegzulegen. Ich durfte es nicht neben meinem Bett aufbewahren und sagte mir, ich könnte es nicht ansehen, wenn ich aufstehe. Ich habe versucht, es tagsüber nicht anzusehen.
    Dann fand ich Informationen über Dr. Sarnos und seine Theorien, die alle Sinn machten. Ich dachte über sie in Verbindung mit anderen Erkenntnissen nach, die ich über das Gehirn und seine Funktionsweise hatte. Wie wir verschiedene Teile unseres Gehirns haben, die verschiedene Dinge kontrollieren. Impulse usw.
    Zu der Zeit war mein Hals sehr eng und wund und sehr schmerzhaft. Meine Stimme war heiser. Ich versuchte überhaupt nicht zu sprechen. Meine Kehle war trocken. Meine Brust hatte Schmerzen, weil ich die Muskeln festhielt. Es fühlte sich an wie unheimliche Schmerzen in der Brust. Ich überprüfte mich regelmäßig den ganzen Tag und die Nacht. Ich las ein wenig mehr über Sarno, sah mir das Showvideo 20/20 an und fing an, meine Gefühle aufzuschreiben. Ehrlich gesagt glaubte ich nicht, dass ich Wut hatte ... aber ich schaute hinein und fand heraus, wo sie versteckt war. Nichts Wichtiges, wenn ich sie laut sagen sollte. Aber unser jüngeres Selbst (und unser erwachsenes Selbst) kann sehr leicht verletzt werden. Kann wütend werden. Haben Sie ein Recht, wütend zu sein.
    Als ich damit anfing, füllte sich plötzlich meine trockene Kehle mit Feuchtigkeit. Das war das erste Zeichen, dass die Dinge auf dem richtigen Weg waren. Und dann habe ich aufgehört, den Drang zu haben, meinen Puls zu überprüfen. Meine Kehle begann sich normaler anzufühlen. Ich hörte auf, darüber nachzudenken oder mir Sorgen zu machen. Von ständig daran denken bis gar nicht.

    You will get better.
     
  8. Kristina1987

    Kristina1987 New Member

    vielen Dank für die motivierenden Worte. Es ist schrecklich, wie schlimm die Angst und die Zwänge werden, und es ist ermutigend zu hören, dass es passieren kann. Ich habe einiges an Schwimm-Si-Gelenkschmerzen überwunden. aber da ich eine anomalie in der kniescheibe habe, die beim strecken und beugen etwas springt und knackt und dann weh tut, würde ich sie gerne den ganzen tag testen oder operieren lassen, hauptsache sie ist weg. das ständige Unbehagen der Bewegung ist furchtbar überwältigend. Ich weiß, dass jeder Anomalien hat, aber sofort denke ich, wenn die Kniescheibe nicht gerade verläuft, ist das strukturell. Ich möchte es wirklich schaffen, aber ich fühle mich, als hätte ich ein echtes Fass geöffnet und es wird schlimmer als leichter.
    danke für all die mutigen worte!
     
  9. Booble

    Booble Well known member

    Translated with Google Translate:
    Ich werde oft an ein Buch erinnert, das ich über ein Ehepaar gelesen habe, das durch Frankreich ging. Als sie anfingen, hatte die Frau (offensichtlich) Schmerzen. Sie dachte, sie sollte aufhören zu gehen. Ihr Mann sagte, nur weil du Schmerzen hast, heißt das nicht, dass du nicht laufen kannst. Als ich es las, dachte ich, der Ehemann sei ein Idiot, aber sie sagte, sie habe noch nie so darüber nachgedacht. Wir gehen immer davon aus, dass wir aufhören, was wir tun, wenn wir Schmerzen haben. Am Ende ging sie weiter und es ging ihr gut. Das hat mich dazu gebracht, die Dinge auch auf neue Weise zu betrachten.
     
  10. Kristina1987

    Kristina1987 New Member

    Thank you for your effort to reply. I feel obsessed with the symptoms I've had since childhood. and when I solve one, the next one comes. I have an incredible fear of health because I can never say what I can ignore and what needs to be seen by a doctor (as explained above, there have been bad things in the past). but it's in the past. my brain is looking for security and I always think if I had no symptoms, everything would be fine. but the way is the other way around. I cried a lot of tears in my therapy and anger. but I think only discipline and a normal life help to get rid of the obsession. I will have to learn to live with abnormalities that sometimes the kneecap cracks. but right now I'm still turning to salt when it happens. I'm always worried that I'm one of the few who won't solve it and make it.
    Thank you!
     
  11. Kristina1987

    Kristina1987 New Member

    liebe Leute
    Ich habe lange überlegt, wieder zu posten. aber ich bin an einem punkt wo ich denke ^ ich kann nicht mehr ^. Ich habe meine Geschichte gepostet und nach einer persönlichen E-Mail von Steve OI hatte ich großen Erfolg mit dem Isg und ignorierte das Knacken. Allerdings gehe ich seitdem durch die Hölle. Mein Knie, das seit Jahren Probleme macht, die Kniescheibe funktioniert nicht richtig. sie subluxiert. Hinsetzen beim Bücken etc. trotz regelmäßigem Training und Physio. das knie hat angeblich deswegen einen knorpelschaden und macht unheimliche geräusche und ist entzündet. die ärzte wollen die kniescheibe operativ in die mitte ziehen und den knorpel glätten. mein anderes Knie, das mal mit einem Tumor operiert wurde, fängt bei jeder Drehbewegung laut an zu knacken. Ich lüge nicht, wenn ich sage, dass ich vor Angst sterbe. meine angst war noch nie so hoch wie seit ich tms kenne. Ich bin besessen von den Symptomen und habe 24 Stunden lang Panikattacken und kann es nicht einmal wagen, mich zu bewegen. Mein Nervensystem ist so alarmiert nach 20 Jahren Schmerz und Angst. Ich gehe in Psychotherapie etc. das bringt mich nicht weiter. Ich habe da meine Zweifel, weil ich hier keinen Arzt habe und immer lese, dass die ärztliche Untersuchung unauffällig sein muss (nur Arthrose etc.). aber meine Kniescheibe ist schief und die Ärzte sagen, dass es den Knorpel zerstört. Ich habe wahnsinnige Angst vor der knackenden Kniescheibe, traue mich nicht in die Hocke usw. sobald ich eine Sache operieren lasse, kommt eine andere dazu. aber ich konnte einfach nichts finden, um es als tms zu behandeln. Das MRT zeigt auch eine Entzündung im Knie, das kürzlich auch gerissen ist, aber niemand weiß warum. Ich kann kaum atmen oder mich beruhigen. Ich habe das Gefühl, dass ich aus Angst vor Behinderung sterbe und dass meine Gelenke immer mehr verschleißen. Früher habe ich Sport geliebt. Reisen. mit meiner Tochter spielen. Ich sterbe vor Angst vor den Symptomen und kann sie nach 5 Jahren 24 Stunden ISG und Ischias einfach nicht mehr ertragen. Ich habe Angst vor sich selbst erfüllenden Prophezeiungen. Ich möchte nicht noch einmal operiert werden, aber ich kenne nie die Grenzen dessen, was TMS ist und was jetzt ernsthaft medizinisch getan werden kann. Die Kniescheibe ist seit Jahren schief, aber der Rücken war schlimmer, also habe ich es ausgehalten. am ende kann ich vor panik nicht mehr arbeiten. kann tms eine jahrelange kniescheibe schief ziehen? im anderen Gelenk ein lautes knackendes Geräusch machen? Ich will nichts übersehen, bis wieder ein Tumor wächst. Ich finde keine Ruhe. hat jemand Rat?
    Kristina
     
  12. Booble

    Booble Well known member

    Hello Kristina,

    I'm sorry that you are struggling.
    When I read your story I see two things.
    One is that you believe you have issues with your knee. The other is that are experiencing profound fear.
    The fear right now appears to be very out of proportion to the problem with the knee.

    An American President once said, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself."
    You are fearing your fear. You are wrapped up in it. The knee is not the problem. The fear is.

    What if you were to try to conquer the fear first and then deal with the knee later?
    What if you decided to let your knee be the way it is for now? Can you take a break and let your knee be?

    Once you are in panic mode, your adrenaline system is "on"...until your brain feels safe.
    You need to do the work and explore your emotions. Are you doing any TMS work?

    My guess is that you are suffering from the past medical issues you experienced. The tumor from the other knee was removed from your leg, but not from your brain. You still view yourself as someone who has a tumor in the knee. Your brain is obsessing on that. Even though it is physically gone. Your brain doesn't believe that yet. This phenomenon is actually fairly common. A famous plastic surgeon from the past, Maxwell Maltz, found that when he removed deformities from people and made them beautiful, they often still saw the deformities when they looked in the mirror. They continued to see themselves as ugly, deformed. Despite the fact that they were now beautiful. Dr. Maltz learned that until their image of themselves changed on the inside, it didn't matter what they looked like on the outside. (His famous book on the topic is called Psycho Cybernetics if you are interested. I'm sure it is translated into your language.)

    You too have to change your image of yourself on the inside.

    If you are doing the TMS work to explore your emotions, your adrenal system will begin to calm down. Forget your knee for now.
    Work on getting to all those emotions. It sound like you have a lifetime of them locked away.

    I wish you the best of luck.

    Note: I am not a medical doctor or therapist. The above is my opinion only and should not be viewed as a diagnosis.
     
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  13. Kristina1987

    Kristina1987 New Member

    thank you very much for the feedback. my assumption was also my fear, which has accompanied me for 25 years.
    Yes, I did the structured education program. Read Steve O more often. Dr Sarno too, as well as Dan Buglio's videos. Also therapy for 8 years. that's what makes me so desperate and slowly I'm thinking the other way around. If only the symptoms and pain were gone, the fear would be gone and my well-being would finally be back. that's what makes me so desperate. with tms work, the symptoms and fears tend to get worse rather than better. only the Isg has some relief after 5 years, which I can hardly perceive. I can let my knee be so bad because I miss being able to move and play with my daughter so much after all these years. I take your words seriously and consider rethinking. I just can't get through the fear. I also read Claire Weeks, of course. I am extremely diligent in working on myself and finding solutions.

    Thank you very much for the words, I will take a few things with me
     
  14. Booble

    Booble Well known member

    I understand how you feel. Many of us have felt that way too.
    If your fear was in proportion to the knee problems, I would agree. BUT that is not the case. Your fear has gone well beyond.
    That is a deep signal that the emotional strains go deeper. If you don't resolve that, then if you have surgery that solves your knee problem, some other pain will crop up or something else to be fearful of. On the other hand, if you can set the knee aside and work solely on the emotions, then you will be able to solve the problem once and for all. You said earlier that you have been dealing with various medical issues since childhood. I don't think the fears are going to go away when the knee problem goes away.

    That said, if you are confident that the knee pain is structural, then why are you not getting the recommended surgery?
     
  15. Kristina1987

    Kristina1987 New Member

    For about 15 years I have been trying to work explicitly on my fear as well as hypochondria and the fear of physical symptoms. Unfortunately, I also had serious things in the meantime, so that the difference Tms and structurally is very difficult for me. the doctors say you can surgically pull the kneecap into the middle. However, I notice myself that after 5 years of isg and sciatica I have strong muscle pulls on the left leg. it is therefore possible that the kneecap will become crooked again afterwards. arthritis in the knee does not cause pain to everyone. I'm just going crazy just because of the noise. I only deal with the body and wish to be able to jog and run and dance freely. everything has structural components for me. but it seems to have happened to others as well. Maybe that's the problem. if i could see it as a tms i would be calmer and move more confidently.
    the fear is out of proportion to the symptoms but I just can't get it. that's the main thing. I've cried so many tears already. Diary. situations illuminated. emdr sessions done. I can't get behind the fear.
     
  16. Booble

    Booble Well known member

    I'm going to be like our friend @JanAtheCPA with some tough love and suggest that you have a lot of:

    "Yes, but...."

    You have read the books, been in therapy, wrote in journal, considered surgery and yet your brain is continuing to:
    a) catastrophize -- assume the worst possible outcome
    b) not accept that anything anyone offers to help you should be listened to.
    You're brain has decided that surgery won't work, tms won't work, living with your knee won't work

    Why do you think that is?

    If I were you I would take my pen and paper and spend the next three days writing asking yourself and answering why?

    Alternatively, if you don't think anything will work for you, then I would consider getting on anti-anxiety medication. Physically calm your body with medication.

    I believe you can conquer this -- I've been there, Jan's been there, many, many, many of us have been there with spiraling anxiety, panic, fear and all the physical symptoms that come along with that. We've had our bodies on edge and heart pounding and feeling like we would never ever feel good, normal again. And hurrah, now we do. Do we cycle back and forth sometimes? Sure... those of us prone to this can fall back sometimes. But that also means we can get out of it again. If we stop "yes, but" --- and not let our brains tells us that we can't get better. We can! You can! You don't have to let the lower part of your brain win. You have the higher, more evolved part of your brain that can tell that lower part of the brain that you are not giving in to it. You have the power. You can choose life.

    Good luck. I wish you peace and calm.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2022
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  17. Kristina1987

    Kristina1987 New Member

    Maybe I used those clear words. I notice resistance in me when I say the words and that's why the way is probably right there.

    I took medication for a long time. Almost 5 years against fears. many were also replaced because they didn't have the desired effect and ended up damaging my nervous system even more.
    thank you for saying you were there too and made it. I want to make it and the pen and the book are already next to me. I may have to become my own detective. Thank you for the detailed feedback and the clear words
     
  18. Hendrikus

    Hendrikus Newcomer

    Hi Kristina, I'm a newcomer in the 'tms field' and not a doctor or therapist. It moves me to read your despair and how your fysical conditions influenced your life in such a big way. There are a few things which pop up in me while reading your posts and I want to share them. First of all; are you in a safe situation, with loving and caring people around you, with help when you need it, with people who doesn't judge you? Can you relax in your daily situation? I think first of all your nervous system needs these conditions to get out of fight-flight mode and make change possible. And second; when you do the tms work; could it be good to just set very humble goals, go with little steps? In other words; don't overdo it, because that might be scary for the brain. I hope like this you will be able to enjoy little successes, which will be inspiring! I wish you all the best!
     
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  19. Kristina1987

    Kristina1987 New Member

    dear people
    Thank you for your answers. I've let a lot of things go through my head and my heart and I have another question. In my very first post I once wrote that I have had sacroiliac joint blockages for over 5 years. In addition, crooked pelvis and leg length difference. So far everything I've read about Tms is normal anomalies. nevertheless, I constantly feel crooked and my knees suffer more and more and wear out. My daughter had an appointment with a holistic orthodontist yesterday. he also looked at me briefly and let me bite cotton in his mouth. like a raise of the teeth. I've crunched mine a lot over the years. At that moment my leg length difference was gone and my pelvis straight. i could see it too. He thinks all my blockages and pain come from the jaw and I need a splint and then orthodontics again. I had fixed braces as a child. in fact, that's when most of the problems started. then it would be a structural cause and not Tms? I can't find much about it in Sarno's books. also not in the other Tms literature. is there any experience here?
    I don't want to spend thousands of euros and is only Placebo.

    Kind regards
    KRISTINA
     
  20. JanAtheCPA

    JanAtheCPA Beloved Grand Eagle

    @Kristina1987, we aren't medical or dental professionals and can't answer your question. I do agree 100% with what @Booble and @Hendrikus are telling you about the state of your fear, and the questions you should be answering for yourself are the ones that @Hendrikus asked you.

    Our brains naturally want us to live in fear, but the amount of fear you are living with is not normal. It's also more than we, or any internet forum can help you with.

    You must learn how to fight back against your fearful brain, and you must allow a skilled therapist to work closely with you to accomplish this, and you must be willing to do whatever it takes. Your fearful brain is incredibly resistant, so this will not be easy. It will continue to fight you and continue to fool you into thinking that fear is necessary. You must not let fear win. Period.

     

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